Connecticut Fox shotguns

[Bill Murphy]

There has been discussion that some CSMC Foxes were made with cast frames rather than forged steel frames. What is the deal with that? If there are cast frames, is there a problem with them and how do we identify them?

[Terry Hobson]

Yes, when I did the plant tour in 94 I remember discussing the frames. They were investment cast, I remember seeing a bin of them. I think that is the same method used for the ruger red label. At any rate I haven’t had any problems due to this on my gun.
I believe they are now from forgeings. I don’t know what the practical differences would be.

[Bill Murphy]

I wonder when the cast receivers were made and can they be identified by serial number?

[Harry Gietler]

Originally Posted by Terry Hobson

Yes, when I did the plant tour in 94 I remember discussing the frames. They were investment cast, I remember seeing a bin of them. I think that is the same method used for the ruger red label. At any rate I haven’t had any problems due to this on my gun.
I believe they are now from forgeings. I don’t know what the practical differences would be.

WOW, who would have believed CAST PARTS. A friend told me that in 99" about cast parts, but I took it with a grain of salt! This confirms It. May be that explains why so many CSM Fox's have been showing up For Sale Lately?

Harry

[Bob Jurewicz]

Bob Jurewicz

[Bob Jurewicz]

Bob Jurewicz

[Harry Gietler]

Hello Bob, You are full of surprises! I KNOW You were the Best Union Rep.for the Teacher's Union, but I did not know you were a Metallurgist! That two page reply to me has a lot of good information in it .But I am not a Metallurgist, so I don't know if it is true or not. So if using CAST Parts is the way to go, why do most people FROWN on the use of them? Also you state that the cost is much lower. IF that is the Case,why do most people on this thread state--They Can't Afford--It's Above my PAY Grade--a CSM Fox?

Harry

[Bob Jurewicz]

Bob Jurewicz

[Harry Gietler]

Originally Posted by Bob Jurewicz

Harry,
Here is your answer:
"Forging is stronger than casting.
Forged parts had a 26% higher tensile strength than the same cast parts. Forged parts had a 37% higher fatigue strength resulting in a much longer lifespan than cast parts. ... That means forge parts allow for much greater deformation before failure than cast parts."
Now, this does not mean that investment cast parts are not good. It means forged are better. I am of the belief, experts correct me if I am wrong, that most of the original manufacture vintage gunmakers used cast parts. In fact the reintroduction of the Ithaca Clasic Doubles used cast receivers until the second generation beginning with serial number starting with 471xxx. The only receiver failures I am aware of were of Ithaca Flues guns. Again, experts please chime in!
Bob Jurewicz

Bob, I knew I could count on YOU ,Thanks for the correct information!
AS for the Flues guns, it was the Frames on the doubles,too much metal was cut out on the insides if I remember correctly
Harry