20 ga. gun weights

[Stan Hillis]

Thank you for that explanation, Bill. No offense taken, my friend. I'm just trying to get to the bottom of it, and learn along the way.

In that case shouldn't that chart I copied and pasted, on the Technical Information page, be corrected and updated?

Thanks everyone for your patience.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, The Parker Story chart has been added to and corrected so many times that the powers can't figure out which is the final?? correction. I think my latest correction is as good as any. However, I don't know where to find it. The list under "Technical Information" on this site seems like it is correct and complete. The only problem is the attribution to The Parker Story. This list is way more correct and complete than is the list in The Parker Story. Now I realize that it was not your error, but an error in the "Technical Information" on this site.

[Stan Hillis]

Thanks for explaining it to me, Bill. I appreciate it.

However, the issue still remains that the cognoscenti here do not agree with what the information says. It says "Frame Sizes Used". Used implies made, to me. And yet, most everyone here says they did NOT make them in five frame sizes.

It's still a mystery to me concerning the conflicting information.

The only reason I brought it up was that when I was comparing weights of different makes of guns ........ Fox, Parker, etc., I saw that the info claimed Parker made 20s in five frame sizes. I pretty well found out what I really needed to know about Parker 20 weights. The rest of this was only a curiosity to me.

[Bill Murphy]

Five frame sizes in 20 gauge. Examples of all five 20 gauge sizes are available. Not that it matters, but the 20 gauge single trap makes a total of six.

[Reggie B]

I think the summarization of Parker 20 gauge guns weights is that you can't. You can only say that you will find them in a varying range of weights. I always hear the Fox guys talking about how much lighter Fox 20s are than Parker 20s. That isn't necessarily true. I owned at one a time a Fox DE 20 gauge with a straight stock and 30" barrels. I also own a Parker 20 BHE with a straight stock and 30" barrels. The Fox had a cut stock with an added recoil pad, the Parker a skeleton steel butt. The Parker actually weighed slightly less than the Fox. Parker Brothers had more options available to vary a guns handling characteristics (read weight) than any other American made double.

[Bill Murphy]

Reggie, we're talking about number stamped frames, not weights. I think we're on the mark at five for 20 gauge double barrel number stamped frames. At least until we find a #3 frame 20. I was a bit surprised when I found a #3 frame 16, but who knows what's next.

[Reggie B]

"20 Gauge Gun Weights" is the title of the thread. Stan said he was comparing weights. Maybe I am off base. Carry on!

[Dean Weber]

Reggie,
You have to be very focused to keep up with the ever-winding topical conversation. Were you expecting to look at a title and expect the thread to stay focused on it in a forum such as ours?

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, I sent you a PM.

[ArtS]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

I guess no one wants to breech the topic of whether the Parker Story is in error about this, or whether it was a matter of the guns being offered vs manufactured.

Not trying to start a ruckus, just trying to learn, in my quest for the perfect quail/woodcock double.

I guess I would have to make the comment that nothing in a book such as TPS can be completely factual. A group of people have done an incredible job of tracking down data and information for years and compliling a body of work that has become the bible of a collector movement. However, there are obviously things that slip through, things that are illegible, and things that are known now that weren't available when the book was compiled. As much as exists in TPS, not everything is included and not everything is accurate.
One such item I was made aware of just the other day. I was of the opinion based on the production records in TPS that Parker made laminate barrels were used only on quality 2, 3 and 4 guns. Other knnowledgeable members here cited examples of lower and higher grade guns with those barrels. In addition, TPS only lists laminate style guns in relation to the Parker laminate barrels. However, a number of D2, D3 and D4 guns with factory barrels have correctly numbered Parker laminate barrels.

There is no way to correct this type of omission or error per se, but it would be nice if there was some method of clearing up these issues as a group and documenting them as time goes on. This would be extremely beneficial to younger people taking an interest in the guns down the road. They shouldn't be presented as a simple FAQ, but maybe a series of short "white papers" in the Parker info section so that beginners would have a source of study.



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EDIT

Note that I wrote this as a response to Stan's post, well before the further responses. However, I think the idea is still valid.