New 8 gauge paper hulls

[Milton C Starr]

Originally Posted by Arthur Shaffer

Due to the shotgun I just mentioned, I ordered and recieved 75 or so 8 gauge industrial hulls new and unprimed. Got them on GB for a little over $1 per hull. I already have 25 of the Parker Headstamped brass shells I got on sale.

The hulls on GB were Black Remington hulls. I had read a lot of posts about swaging these and all sorts of work to use them. I read this thread and took a couple to my shop. I chucked one up in my lathe 3 jaw chuck and took an easy cut off the outside of the rim. As soon as it separated, the head side and inner side separated and I pulled the two pieces off with my fingers. Easy as pie. There is apparently a small gap under the rim fold over, and the inner rim is not touched. Hiding underneath is a perfectly normal Black Remington 8 gauge hull. Just no headstamp. Apparently when they make them, they take a normal hull and swage crimp a thin brass cup over the complete head, then punch it through into the primer pocket. No mechanical attachment at all.
The primer is looser, but the new hulls would benefit from a primer pocket conditioner.I did 4 more to test, and they took about 30 seconds per hull.

I would like to try to put together some various test loads, but I only have the brass hulls and 7 gauge wads. I need to get some 8 guge wads for the plastic. I would like to get a few SP8 or Gualagies, but no one has any that I can find.

I suspect that you could roll the rim of the hulls against a beltsander and do a good job removing the outer shell, but the lathe is more precise and faster.

Ah so you bought those new black Remington hulls I think there was 78 of them on gunbroker for $1 a piece. Just be sure with the guqlandi wad which version you buy. I have a bag of sp8s but don't really use them can't really find a reason to. Resizing the industrial hulls is easy enough I suppose doing it on a lathe makes for a cleaner looking hull. Reloaders network has added some new 8 gauge tools like a hull conditioner primer pocket and a 6 pin roll crimper.

[JesseGDeluca]

These shotguns are looking very good please share your reviews with us.

[ArtS]

Originally Posted by Milton C Starr

Ah so you bought those new black Remington hulls I think there was 78 of them on gunbroker for $1 a piece. Just be sure with the guqlandi wad which version you buy. I have a bag of sp8s but don't really use them can't really find a reason to. Resizing the industrial hulls is easy enough I suppose doing it on a lathe makes for a cleaner looking hull. Reloaders network has added some new 8 gauge tools like a hull conditioner primer pocket and a 6 pin roll crimper.

Actually, I measured the hulls and found there was not a lot difference between the hull bases and those of a brass shell to spec. There is quite a difference between the industrial rim diameter and the spec. Most old guns might accept this ok, but my luck would be a tight chamber. The rim is also thicker by two thicknesses of the overlay. I don't have a swage and would have to fabricate one or buy something, and I do have a lathe. The rim would still be a potential problem. As easy as it turned out to do, I can do probably three boxes in an hour and have perfectly stock shells.

If you can spare some or all of the SP10's, send me a PM. I am having cataract surgery this afternoon, so it may be a day or two until I respond.

[Cory Leist]

Milton, how are you going about getting load data? Are you sending them off to Tom or modifying existing loads?

Thanks

[Milton C Starr]

Originally Posted by cory leist

Milton, how are you going about getting load data? Are you sending them off to Tom or modifying existing loads?

Thanks

The paper hulls will need some load development they probably have a little less internal volume compared to the Win or Rem 8 ga hulls. Side note on the paper hulls they are a bit sturdier than the plastic hulls the material whatever type of paper they use doesn't deform as easily as the plastic. They do roll crimp identically to the Rem hull so I am wondering if the 6 pin crimper would work better on them.

I use Toms data for bluedot and the Win hulls except I use fiber wads.

[Cory Leist]

Many thanks Milton. I love the look and feel of paper hulls. I will be ordering a few up for myself and really appreciate you passing along the website.

Are you talking about the six point crimp from reloaded network? I’ve been eyeballing that one as the one I have from BP doesn’t do so well with the Winchester super x paper hulls I have.

Do you just swap the fiber one to one for Toms loads?

[Milton C Starr]

Originally Posted by cory leist

Many thanks Milton. I love the look and feel of paper hulls. I will be ordering a few up for myself and really appreciate you passing along the website.

Are you talking about the six point crimp from reloaded network? I’ve been eyeballing that one as the one I have from BP doesn’t do so well with the Winchester super x paper hulls I have.

Do you just swap the fiber one to one for Toms loads?

The specific load I am talking about is the first one on page 80 in Toms book.
He lists it as 9600 psi but should be a good deal less without buffer and the plastic wad. The Fawcetts paper hulls should work a bit better than the Win paper ones as they have a plastic basewad. I have one of the Winchester paper hulls I cut the old crimp off and re-rolled it out of curiosity. I have had good luck with the BPI roller on the Remington hulls also.

It took me 3 weeks to get the paper hulls but considering they have to be shipped from England and at the time Fawcetts was closed for a week because their whole staff had covid. These days though a 3 week wait on reloading components isnt that bad . The factory crimp on the Winchester paper was a bit wonky but then again they were made to be pulled apart not fired as it was a powder sampler case. I read Winchester did this to skirt paying hazmat on shipping powder. Winchester cant seem to stop using their industrial products to skirt the law lol.

[Milton C Starr]

Art heres how my Remington hulls resize. From what I can tell really all you need is a 23.5mm hole to push the case into. Homedepot has a 23.5mm boring bit I plan on getting to make another sizing die. I believe Wayne made this resizing die and he is one hell of a machinist pardon the language. The sleeve job he did on his sxs rifle is the best I have seen.

[ArtS]

That looks good. I checked the dimensions, and it looks to me like 23.5 mm is a little big. All the new cases I have seem to measure about .912 to .914. I am guessing that to get right on, the best plan would be to use a 0.875 (7/8) hole then bore them to the exact dimension. Looked on eBay and found that a common item is a Heim rod fitting for custom suspensions. I ordered a set of two for $15. They are threaded for 7/8 studs inside and are 1-1/4" outside with a 1-1/2" hex flange on one end. Inside bore to .912 and thread the outside to 1-1/4 thread and you have a resizing die. I think I will make 2; one tapered for the first 1/2 inch to make the entry easier and the second straight walled to take the sizing all the way to the rib.

[Milton C Starr]

Originally Posted by Arthur Shaffer

That looks good. I checked the dimensions, and it looks to me like 23.5 mm is a little big. All the new cases I have seem to measure about .912 to .914. I am guessing that to get right on, the best plan would be to use a 0.875 (7/8) hole then bore them to the exact dimension. Looked on eBay and found that a common item is a Heim rod fitting for custom suspensions. I ordered a set of two for $15. They are threaded for 7/8 studs inside and are 1-1/4" outside with a 1-1/2" hex flange on one end. Inside bore to .912 and thread the outside to 1-1/4 thread and you have a resizing die. I think I will make 2; one tapered for the first 1/2 inch to make the entry easier and the second straight walled to take the sizing all the way to the rib.

My chambers are .925 which comes out to 23.5mm, I have been told American 8 gauges can run tight on the chambers though but I have never measured one. Toms in his book talks about measurements on old 8 gauge rounds and he got .924-.925 but they may have been English hulls I dont think he mentions the brand. My sizing die has one side that is a little tighter then the .925 side. The Winchesters I can resize in one motion with very little lube. The Remingtons I have to do in 2 stages and they have to be greased up a bit. The rim on the Rems are a bit chunky so sometimes I will have to run them back through the die. I dont have any sort of reloading press I just use a 1 ton arbor press for everything I need. Though I think you could probably resize the Winchesters using the downward stroke on the drill press. They dont take much to swage down, probably because the brass is one piece compared to the 2 piece Remingtons.