parker gun part swapping

[Old and Reliable]

I have stayed away from shortened barrels, re-choked and re-chambered guns- But I have an 'optical illusion perhaps' with these "Given factors for me- (1) I shoot 12 gauge shotguns 95% of the time (2) at age 70 I still have 20-20 vision with perfect depth perception (3) I am right handed and have a right dominant eye- no cast on or off (4) Any shotgun stocked about like a factory original field grade Model 12 from 1936 to 1960 will fit me well (5) I always shoot from the low gun position- with the butt tucked up under my right armpit- learned a lot from the H&H Ken Davies Videos-

That being said- I have two LC Smiths with different barrel lengths and ribs- a 1945 Ideal FWE 12 with 26" barrels and the raised solid rib they brought out in about 1939- no middle bead sight- and that raised rib makes the barrels seem (to my vision anyway) more like a 28" barreled 12 (my 3E and my GHE)-- But the flip side-my favorite Tower bird, goose and turkey 12 (since I sold the heavy HE Super-Duper Fox anyway) is a 2E 12 Smith rebarreled with 32" Nitro Steel barrels, factory ventilated rib with NO middle bead sight- and not a Longrange- it has 3" chambers and the steel Y lower rib reinforcement- and that cannon with the ventilated rib makes (again, just to my vision) the barrels seem shorter- much like the 30" Crown Steel barrels on my 12 gauge 2E--

I don't notice that illusion with my M12's however- 2 12 ga. M12's I own- a field 30" mfg. 1937 (Dad's gun) with a factory solid rib Full choke- and a 1948 Pigeon Grade trap with the old style milled rib- 30" Imp. Mod. choke- I focus on the bird anyways, whether clay or feathers-

You have to be very careful- about 6 years ago at an area gun show, I saw a nice 4E NID 20 bore with straight grip, single trigger, early NID with the visible cocking indicators- priced at about $2250- I asked the dealer, a man whom I knew slightly, for OK to examine it- he said "go ahead' and handed it to be-as I reached for my 10' Stanley tape rule, he "jumped the gun" and said- Those are 28" barrels, no need to measure- but I did- three times and each time I read 26 & 3/4"- He knew the "jig was up" and I removed the forearm and read the barrel choke numerical code- No 4 in each barrel- so- my guess-it was originally a 28" barreled gun Full choke in each tube- and some "hacksaw Jack" wanted to open the patterns- Wrong move- I would NOT have bought that Ithaca for any price-you can never re-sell it to anyone that knows what to look for-

[Leighton Stallones]

A friend of mine here in Texas told me several years ago about his Parker
GH that he hunted Pheasants with in Kansas when he lived in Missouri.
However ,he said someone had put replacement stocks on it and they did not fit him well,but he was ok with them. A few months ago, I saw him at a shoot in New Braunfels and he told me an amazing story.
He was visiting relatives in Kansas City and his nephew drug him down to the Cabelas store. He noticed a big box of shotgun stocks and found a buttstock
and foreend that looked like they would fit his Parker and the serial numbers looked close. He said that he called his wife at home and asked her to look at the serial numbers on his Parker to see how close they were.
They were the same serial numbers as his gun and he bought them of course and left in a daze.
Evidently, Bishop, Fajen or another Missouri stocker had done the work on his gun and sold the excess old stocks to Cabelas.
True story.

[Dean Romig]

We should all be so lucky. The chances of that happening are slim indeed.

[Bruce Day]

Bishops but mostly Fajens made standard V grade configuration and with a deep cut angled thumb groove stocks for the trade. They also made beavertail fore ends. They were machine inletted but required hand fitting, checkering and finishing and addition of a recoil pad. They went to Simmons in Olathe Kansas, around the country and into Ilion, NY. When Fajens closed, Fred Wenig Gunstocks in Lincoln, MO bought the large remainder stock and used them as needed. When Fred retired, the take off inventory was sold and the Fajen remainder new stocks were sold. A noted PGCA member bought the remainder stock and disposed of much of that with the last couple years at cost to members who needed utilitarian stocks and fore end wood. I didn't know what happened to the take off stocks, Cabelas in Kansas City could have ended up with the Simmons take offs or the Fajen/Wenig take offs.

Fred Wenig had been the superintendent for Fajen, later after Fred left to establish his own shop, Donnie Gemmes became the superintendent. Fred retired from his Wenig Gunstocks, it is now employee owned, and Donnie went on to create Show Me Gunstocks. Marti Fajen went on to become the US importer for CZ Guns , a woman owned gun businesses, then several years ago, Marti sold out. Wenig Gunstocks and Show Me Gunstocks still make replacement stocks for Parkers.

[Dean Romig]

Thanks for that information Bruce.

[Bruce Day]

Dean, as further trivia and perhaps not of interest to most, is that Fajen/Bishop/ bought and Wenig /Gemmes still buy their Juglas nigra blanks from St Joe Walnut in St Joseph MO, which also sold local northern Missouri and Iowa walnut blanks to Parker Bros. Just as in the Meridan days, there are some wonderful pieces of air dried highly figured stump walnut that come from this region.

I believe it likely that many of if not most of the utilitarian V grade type stocks we see as replacements came as rough cut, inletted stocks from Fajen/Bishops. They did very well during the 50's and 60's with sporter stocks for all the war surplus 1903 Springfields being sold....remember the NRA ads for surplus 03's, what were they $20? Bill would know. There were also 30 Cal Carbine stocks when they were surplused out. My dad bought a Spanish American War era Krag with a Bishop stock and hunted deer when we lived in SoDak.


They made a lot of replacement stocks for M. 12's and those beavertail forends to replace the corn cob forends. The Parker replacement stocks I've seen had the deep angled thumb grooves like the replacement M 12 stocks. While its easy to tell that these are not original Parker stocks, they were certainly utilitarian and not costly , and I think they might have preserved many Parkers for use today that might have been discarded and lost because of broken stocks, high drop, or other features that owners found undesireable.

[Vincent Pascucci]

Guys, I never thought I'd start so much conversation. Just proof in the comments from some of you earlier about how much fun I'll have as a member (just lazy so far about signing up).

On the topic of regulation, one thing I noted was comments that the barrels should be set for the shot to cross streams at say 50 yards. if that's the case, then given that the centerlines on the muzzles of the 12 gage are about 1.25 inch (I admit that's eyeball accuracy but, as my father always says, it's close enough for the girls we go with) and if my math is right, then for the centerlines to meet at 50 yards, they'd only be canted in 0.025 deg towards each other. Seems hard to believe such accuracy in manufacture could have been attained in pre CNC machined days. And, I'm not sure how much it would have helped. Given that at 50 yards the pattern is many inches, if my two streams were exactly parallel, they'd still have probably 90% or better overlap.

Looking at the issue of the bead height above the barrel and how moving it back would affect elevation, it's tough to say. One would have to know what the original intent of the the set up was - e.g. was the bead set so that a line from the top to the back of the rib would precisely parallel the bore centerline, or was it slightly below so that sighting would place the bore extended center line above the aim point to compensate for drop at some point. I suspect the latter since assuming muzzle velocity of 1000 fps, drop would be about 5 or 6 inches at 50 yards.

Again, back to some trig, setting up the aim line to be 6 inches below the bore centerline at 50 yards requires about 0.2 deg difference between the two. That 0.2 deg difference would mean the top of the bead would have to be about 0.105 inch lower than the rear sighting point of the rib. Moving in 2 inches closer means it would have to be 0.098 inches lower than the rear sight point instead, or about 0.007" difference. Doesn't sound like much, but it is about a 7% change which, if the original sighting was to compensate for 6 inches of drop, this would change the point of impact by around 0.5". For the Sunday trap shooter or farmer out hunting, probably no big deal. But for the top end competitors, maybe one fewer hits out of 400. That could be important.

All that said, I think it takes means two things. First, as someone else said, take it out and shoot it to see if it's on target or not (though as I noted, I don't intended shooting the gun). Second it means after reading this some of you will be advising me to reconsider joining.