RE INDEXING SCREWS - Page 3

Opening Day · 12-06-2010, 02:38 PM

Jim I am pretty sure you are correct. Eric

Mike McKinney · 12-06-2010, 09:15 PM

Didn't Doug Turnbull discuss this when he took the Parker apart at the Vintagers? I don't recall if he talked about the specific sides, but he did talk about the marks.

Roundsworth · 12-06-2010, 09:39 PM

I may be way out in left field with this, but, we know which barrel is the right and which is the left. Wouldn't it make sense to identify screws with their location in relation to each barrel? Sears and hammers are labeled that way, why not the screws.

Dollar Grade · 12-06-2010, 11:00 PM

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but of the dozen or so that I have taken apart (from the 1890's to the mid 1920 mfg dates) the trigger plate screw with a single line filed into the threaded end has gone into the hole on the right side the the gun. While the gun is upside down and the butt plate is pointing at my belly. Left side of the gun if you are shooting it....

If nobody else can confirm this then I must be going insane...
...probably not far from it, seeing as the Remington model 12 firing pin that I just got from Numrich's is not a drop in piece. I have to file out the notch for one of the pins that holds it in place.........who would have thought ??!! Cripe, it may need more filing before it will work...

Kurt

Richard Flanders · 12-07-2010, 01:20 AM

Kurt: you are verifying what most of us have said already, that the right left is actually on the left with the gun is left on it's back, which is the right way to figure out which left is right, and that leaves us with nothing left to say about the right way to do this except that the right left is actually on the right side of the gun and that whatever is not on the left side must be on the right side......right??. Thanks....

VH20 · 12-07-2010, 01:59 AM

Hello all. I'm surprised that my little post on screw identification caused such controversy! Sorry I haven't been back sooner to provide the answer. But, since I wrote the copy that Robin wants to put into the FAQs, I'll provide the answer as it relates to what I wrote. The answer is - don't overthink it. Conventions have been established. A gun (or almost anything else) has but ONE left side and ONE right. The right barrel does not become the left when you invert the gun. It is still the right, even though it appears on your left when the gun is inverted. Therefore, my reference to right screws means those found on the same side of the gun as the ACTUAL right barrel, regardless of how the gun is oriented at the time. Ditto for the left screws and ACTUAL left barrel. Really simple.

I'm glad Richard brought the question up though, because if one person was wondering, then certainly others were. In fact, I have to remind myself when putting the floorplate screws in that the left screw goes in the hole on the "right" as I am viewing it (inverted).

Also, I see that I have made a mistake on the "+" marking. I have only run across it on guns with three floorplate screws of equal length. As I stated before, the "-" will still be the left, but the "+" on the 00-frame I just checked is the rear one that you can see partially obscured by the triggerguard bow. The right screw is unmarked. This makes more sense, because it follows the convention previously established with other guns that have the longer screw (i.e. "-" on the left and nothing on the right). The "+" is only needed when all screws are of equal length. Memory is faulty, but I'm trying to remember if I've actually seen a "+" mark on right screws elsewhere on the guns, but I can't really say that I have, so I will have to correct multiple portions of my original post.

Now that I think about it, I'm not sure whether the three equal-length floorplate screws are a feature of later guns, or just 00-frames. This is the only 00-frame gun I've had apart, and coincidentally the only post-1922 gun I've worked on recently. The short (equal-length to the front two) screw could be required on the 00-frame, but I somehow doubt this. My guess is that it has more to do with era of manufacture. I'm pretty sure I've seen three short (equal-length) screws on other 20s-era guns of larger size. Removal of this rear screw from a larger frame gun, circa late-20s, could help provide additional data, but I don't have access to one right now.

So Robin, to make the FAQ entry, I'd clarify it by saying the left screws ("left" meaning the actual left side of the gun, or in other words, on the same side as the left barrel) carry the "-" mark, and the right screws are unmarked. On floorplates the same convention applies, but where two of the three are unmarked, the longer one goes to the rear/center and the shorter one is the right. On floorplates with three screws of equal length, the rear/center one carries the "+" mark, and the right is unmarked as it is on other guns.

Finally, knowing the Parker mantra (never say never), it wouldn't surprise me to find that someone somewhere has a gun that defies the convention that I've noted on all the guns I've had apart.

I have edited my previous post to reflect the above corrections.

Jim

Bindlestiff · 12-07-2010, 08:25 AM

Thanks Jim,

I put the FAQ up and I hope its clear and accurate. I don't know how I got so turned around but I guess it happens.

These exercises make the FAQ web page better. I'm always on the lookout for information like this that can help us later and pulling several posts into one FAQ is a good place to put it so its not lost.

Thanks everyone for the help.

TARNATION !!! · 12-07-2010, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Richard Flanders

Kurt: you are verifying what most of us have said already, that the right left is actually on the left with the gun left on it's back, which is the right way to figure out which left is right, and that leaves us with nothing left to say about the right way to do this except that the right left is actually on the right side of the gun and that whatever is not on the left side must be on the right side......right??. Thanks....

TARNATION !!! · 12-07-2010, 10:33 AM

Being a bit nit picky here. The term used in the FAQ to describe the forward (muzzle) end of the floor plate could lead to a bit of confusion. Doll's head is normally associated with a rib extension that fits into the receiver.

Doll's Head - A rib extension on a break-open gun, ending in a circular or semi-circular shape in plan (resembling the head of a doll), mating into a similarly-shaped recess in the top of the receiver, designed to resist the tendency of the barrels to pull away from the standing breech when firing. Because an action's centerpoint of flexing when firing is at the base of the standing breech, not at the hingepin, a passive doll's head extension makes an effective extra fastener, even without additional mechanical locks operated by the opening lever.

Here is the link. A great guide to gun terminology with many photos as well.
Cheers,
Jack

Dean Romig · 12-07-2010, 11:06 AM

On the Parker hammerless guns I've always referred to that end of the floorplate as the "doll's head of the floorplate".