Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums  

Go Back   Parker Gun Collectors Association Forums Parker Forums General Parker Discussions

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools Display Modes
Unread 10-29-2024, 07:03 PM   #21
Member
Pa SxS
Research Chairman
PGCA Lifetime
Member
 
Chuck Bishop's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,914
Thanks: 1,228
Thanked 5,074 Times in 1,452 Posts

Default

I'm amazed that you guys keep saying this gun is the only one made in this configuration or this gun is only 1 of x number made in this configuration when you know the data in TPS is extrapolated to take into account for the missing records.
Chuck Bishop is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Chuck Bishop For Your Post:
Unread 10-29-2024, 11:50 PM   #22
Member
ArtS
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 928
Thanks: 84
Thanked 1,319 Times in 489 Posts

Default

I may be misunderstanding what you are saying, but it seems you are saying the known records were tabulated and then scaled up (extrapolated) to allow for a proportional increase in all the categories in the tabulation. That means the tabulation in TPS was over reported (above what the records revealed), not under reported. For instance, if 20% of the records were missing and they tabulated 4 guns of a certain specification, then the count in the book would have been listed as 5. So a 1 of 5 gun may have been really a 1 of 4 gun. Or a 1 of 6 gun. No one can really say. What you can say is that it is very rare. The other fact is that if, for instance, only 1 or 2 guns of a specification were found in 80% of the records, there is a better than average chance that no more were made in the smaller number of lost records. Additionally, the scaling could be right or wrong depending on what is being considered. For instance, there may have been more or less records lost during the time Bernard barrels were used vs Parker Special. A different scaling factor would have been required for each specification and time period.

I have never heard any mention of extrapolation, but I am surprised it was done. I always assumed that everyone realized it was a count from the known records and that some of them are missing. Generating biased data doesn't seem something that would have been really helpful.

In the case of rare specifications, it really doesn't change much. Unless the majority of the records are missing, the number doesn't even change. Extrapolating the number of 1 or 2 guns will still round off to 1 or 2. For 3 or 4 guns it may round off to 4 or 5. I think it is very, very unlikely that the records show only 1 or 2 guns of a certain specification and then a search of the lost records turn up a batch of 50 of them. They are rare for a reason in the existing records. I think everyone knows that the records are not perfect. There are many known instances where the records are simply wrong based on the gun as found. The only baseline we have to use as a measure of rarity is the tabulation published in TPS and will not change barring a finding of the missing records.

A good question is: how many guns are missing from the records vs the serial numbers used? We all know the serialization book is incomplete compared to the known records due to leaving out the many of the lower grade guns during certain periods. However, we know what serial numbers are recorded in the order books and we know there is an accepted total number of serial numbers, so how much was this "extrapolation"?
Arthur Shaffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-30-2024, 07:23 AM   #23
Member
Cold Spring
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 2,032
Thanks: 3,689
Thanked 6,690 Times in 1,306 Posts

Default

Art, I'm happy that worked out so well for you. I'd been watching your new CHE on GB and had my finger on the bid tab several times as it timed out but in the end relied on that goofy description and decided I didn't want another project gun. Otherwise we might have gotten into a bidding war. Again, happy for you.
Frank Srebro is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-30-2024, 09:09 AM   #24
Member
ArtS
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Nov 2021
Posts: 928
Thanks: 84
Thanked 1,319 Times in 489 Posts

Default

It's amazing how many guns I have purchased at what I think is a good price due to poor descriptions. One of the best was a gun listed as a Fox Sterlingworth with a description that said almost nothing. One look at the pictures showed it was a small bore NID in great shape. I sent him a question and asked if the gun was the actual gun shown in the pictures. His quick replay was that it was the actual gun for sale. Since he offered returns, I bid his minimum and was the only bidder. I got it for only a few hundred dollars. Thst sort of thing happens a lot.
Arthur Shaffer is offline   Reply With Quote
Unread 10-30-2024, 09:47 AM   #25
Member
Dean Romig
PGCA Invincible
Life Member
 
Dean Romig's Avatar

Member Info
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 32,015
Thanks: 36,638
Thanked 34,093 Times in 12,620 Posts

Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Chuck Bishop View Post
I'm amazed that you guys keep saying this gun is the only one made in this configuration or this gun is only 1 of x number made in this configuration when you know the data in TPS is extrapolated to take into account for the missing records.
Chuck, I think the claims of “only” should be redefined as “only known”.

That would take into account any missing records that may indicate otherwise.





.
__________________
"I'm a Setter man.
Not because I think they're better than the other breeds,
but because I'm a romantic - stuck on tradition - and to me, a Setter just "belongs" in the grouse picture."

George King, "That's Ruff", 2010 - a timeless classic.
Dean Romig is offline   Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Dean Romig For Your Post:
Unread 10-30-2024, 12:00 PM   #26
Member
Chris T.
PGCA Member

Member Info
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Posts: 867
Thanks: 517
Thanked 561 Times in 269 Posts

Default

Vague descriptions and bad pictures can make for a great buy. You have to interpret what you can see in the pictures and make an educated decision. Sometimes it's worth rolling the dice...

John,
That CHE is a neat piece. I'd enjoy the heck out of it just the way it is! Just my $.02.
Chris Travinski is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 02:40 AM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright © 1998 - 2024, Parkerguns.org
Copyright © 2004 Design par Megatekno
- 2008 style update 3.7 avec l'autorisation de son auteur par Stradfred.