Hemingway's guns

[Bill Murphy]

King, you might comment on Mr. McCarty's comment "I googled you and find that you did extensive work with women in military." I have a feeling he is trusting google a bit too much. I am a bit uncomfortable with this exchange on the PGCA site since we are dealing with a discussion about anti semitism and the situation in Europe and "dropping out of the Communist Party because of anti semitism". Some of us see even more important reasons for dropping out of the CP, like their record of slaughtering their own citizens and a few other minor transgressions like improper transfer of property. Let's explain our conversation here or delete it, which I will do when the time is right. I have nothing against ABT or GS, but we don't need to glorify them or their politics on a Parker gun website. If either one of you fellows wants to debate the politics of Toklas, Stein, Dos Passos, or, for that matter, Werner Von Braun, we'll meet somewhere, buy a good supply of whiskey, or whisky, and sit down for a long weekend. Not here.

[Don Kaas]

The Kingsley Browne (with an "e") who writes about women in the military is from Detroit and professor at Wayne State. Mr Brown, the waterfowling Canadian double gun enthusiast and son of an apparent ex-Communist, is from Nova Scotia. This should not be hard to differentiate...in every one of his posts "our King" flys the Maple Leaf quite proudly. I am afraid I can not compete with tea with Alice and Gertrude. My late wife's maternal uncle, Cyril was a blacklisted Hollywood director whose "name was named"...he later went on to direct "Zulu". That's the best I can do in the lefty department althought for all the years I knew him in London, Uncle Cy wasn't too "lefty". He was Jewish however so Papa Brown might have supported him on two "fronts"...Bill- do these Jewish and Communist associations bar me from the PGCA? Please let me know...

[George Lander]

Getting back to the subject of Hemingway and his guns,I have also been reading the book and as the book makes clear, Papa was a hunter and a shooter and not a collector. His guns, for the most part, were well used and well cared for. I did not find a reference to his owning a Parker although one picture in the book with him in the company of Gary Cooper it shows Cooper carrying a Parker (which could have been Papa's)

A great movie to watch is "Islands in the Stream" in which George C. Scott plays the role of Papa, although with a different name. David Hemmings plays the rummey friend who won a BAR in a poker game and uses it to kill a shark that was after one of Papa's sons.

Best Regards, George

[King Brown]

I've no desire to stir things about CP or anti-Semitism. Steve wondered about those Paris days. It was a strange time when so many eyes were wide-closed to the dark sides of fascism and communism, both here and in the US. As for the Jews, my grandmother was a British Israelite who thought the British were one of the lost tribes of Israel. And I'm the great grandson of a full-blood Mi'kmaq whom the British tried to exterminate in the wars against France. An ancestor participated in the burning of the White House in retaliation for US destroying Toronto. The Americans of shared blood, kin and values made me a Canadian with Jefferson's invasion of Canada in 1812 which Canada is celebrating at great expense this year. For all that, the USA is my most admired other country as I've hitherto revealed. As for women in combat, let's not forget the gutsy guerilla of For Whom The Bell Tolls.

[Bill Murphy]

Don and King, I was just trying to redirect Steve to the "correct Mr. B" as Don has done. Google is a dangerous weapon in some cases, but this was obviously an honest mistake on Steve's part.

[King Brown]

Bill, my father and I with same names worked the same craft. We decided there would be no Jr qualifier. Let the world think we had seven-league boots, appearing here and there throughout the world like the Scarlet Pimpernel. Our interests were so wide and varied there was confusion, of course. My son has the same name. Still no Jr which we consider a little over the top, an affectation. We let people think what they want to think, to hell with it. To keep to our sporting interests, I'm told Kingsley in Old English means King's Wood (of birds and animals for the monarch's pleasure). My grandmother admired Charles Kingsley. I imagine you've gone through the same with Bill Murphy. Regards, King

[Bill Murphy]

King, my Grandfather was William Murphy, who was a community leader, owned a couple of businesses, one a "cafe", one a distributorship of alcoholic beverages. He also ran a pigeon ring. I, as you, am not anything but the same name as my Grandfather, without embellishment. However, Steve mistook you for someone who is not related to you in any way, an error in trusting google.com as Don mentioned.

[Steve McCarty]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Don and King, I was just trying to redirect Steve to the "correct Mr. B" as Don has done. Google is a dangerous weapon in some cases, but this was obviously an honest mistake on Steve's part.

Thanks for the heads up. I never, ever try to ruffle feathers. I am just chatting and thinking, nothing more. I enjoy a free exchange of ideas and I yearn for discussion with people who have either "been there" or who know something. I find small talk drab. Mr. Brown's comments have been extremely interesting to me and have caused me to think and then re-think.

Hotchner in Hemingway's Guns which I read again last night said that Hem did not like overly fancy guns, but we've all seen that amazing O/U shotgun. According to the same source the W.C. Scott 12 gauge was not a very fancy gun, but a workhorse. A long barreled pigeon gun.

Hem had a fine collection of guns. It would have been fun to stand with him, G & T in hand, and listen to him as he took them down one at a time and told a story about each. None of us, I think, admire the man in a hero worship sort of way, but rather we find him compelling and for many valid reasons.

As for the appropriateness our discussions? I haven't had so much fun behind a key board for quite some time.

[Robert Delk]

"Snows of Kilimanjaro" was probably the first movie I ever saw as a child. My mother was a fan of EH and took us when it came out.I read some of his books as a child also. I read "The Old Man and the Sea" when it came out and my mom bought a copy. I wonder if my early love of fishing was encouraged by that book.I suppose he "postured" some,many men do, and thought of himself as tougher than he actually was.Something else we are prone to do. "Everybody wants to be a bad ass" as we used to say in my outfit in Vietnam.The truth of combat,with enough of it, would have soon dispelled any thoughts of finding "glory" in it. I still like EH,I grew up with his books, but his reputation as a bully and "wantabe" put me off. I understand him some as we fought some of the same battles of family and emotional issues and am very sorry he could not find the help he needed.

[Larry the Gun Guy]

As we sit around the fire, that the internet has created, listing to the stories told by men of varying experiences it certainly provokes thought and ideas and opinions....