SBT # 181261

[J. A. EARLY]

Is it still 15" l.o.p.? Must have been a big man.

[Bill Murphy]

L.H. Reid shot similar or higher scores than very famous amateur Frank Troeh and equally famous professionals Al Riehl and F.C. Riehl, also Washington shooters. L.H. Reid lived at 1903 3rd Street, Seattle in 1922 and at 1211 2nd Street North, Seattle in 1925. Troeh was listed as an amateur in those years, but I believe he worked as a professional in later years. By the way, Jerry, my 1917 SC is a 15" gun also and letters that way.

[Tom Flanigan]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face.

Bill. I do know that the 1 1/4 oz. 12 bore load was the standard trap loading long ago. But I believe it was generally loaded at 3 1/4 dram equivalent (around 1200 fps) and not the 3 3/4 dram equivalent (+1300 fps) that is typical for heavy factory hunting loads. In my opinion, the 1200 fps, 1 1/4 oz. load is the optimum load for a 12 bore. It patterns beautifully out of my guns and I have used it for years on waterfowl and turkeys. It's the only load I use for hunting with a 12 bore. If you are going to carry a heavier 12 bore for longer range shooting you might as well use a 12 bore load in it.

The 1200 fps 1 1/4 load is a whole different animal than the 1300+ loading, in my opinion. It is a comfortable load to shoot and after comparing the results of using both loads on Saskatchewan waterfowl, I am absolutely convinced that the 1200 fps load is the better of the two. I tried hard to be totally objective in my comparison of the two loads on waterfowl and I became convinced that I had more dead in the air kills with the 1200 fps load. Maybe a longer shot string of the 1300 load had something to do with it, I don’t know. But I do know that my testing was extensive with a lot of kills to compare in the evaluation. I do two weeks in Saskatchewan and I pound the waterfowl day after day on their breeding and staging areas. My opinion is based on actual experience and, I trust, objectivity. No theory or armchair musings here.

[Trap3]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

ATA rules in the early days allowed 1 1/4 ounces of shot. I don't know when that changed to 1 1/8 ounces, but a 1917 Parker single obviously digested thousands of rounds of 1 1/4 ounce loads without significant damage. My 1922 PHE trap gun was used on pigeons until I purchased it. It had probably shot almost nothing other than 1 1/4 ounce loads for its entire life until the 1990s when I purchased it. It is still very tight and on face. By the way, the earliest NSSA rule books allowed 1 1/4 ounce loads for skeet competition. Fortunately, that didn't last long.

Looked in a program from 1937 Interstate Shoot at Elliott`s Shooting Park,
Shell Rules... 3 1/4dr 1 1/4oz 7 1/2

In another Interstate program from 1941 ATA shell rules had changed to:
3dr 1 1/8oz 7 1/2... So sometime between those years.

Example of a premium Trap Load from the 20`s and 30`s
Western Super Trap 3 1/4 1 1/4 7 1/2

Trap3

[Bill Murphy]

That's one beautiful shell.

[Trap3]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

That's one beautiful shell.

Bill...

A couple more variations of the Western Super Trap shell...

Trap3

[Dean Romig]

So, unless I'm missing something, there were both high-brass and low-brass Super Trap Loads with the same loadings?





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[Trap3]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;264971]So, unless I'm missing something, there were both high-brass and low-brass Super Trap Loads with the same loadings?


Western offered "Trap Loads" in 3dr. 3 1/8dr. 3 1/4dr. The Super Trap Lubaloy advertised for Handicap Shooting available in 3dr. 3 1/8dr. and 3 1/4dr. I`m guessing the high brass was used as flyer load, available in #7 shot...

Trap3

[Dean Romig]

So I can presume the heavier 3 1/4 dram loads used exclusively the high-brass shells and the other two used low-brass?





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[Trap3]

[QUOTE=Dean Romig;264975]So I can presume the heavier 3 1/4 dram loads used exclusively the high-brass shells and the other two used low-brass?


Dean,

I would agree the heavier 3 1/4 was high brass... But I have several examples of the Super Trap Handicap Load that are 3dr and 3 1/8dr high brass shell. The photo with the low brass and high brass shells are 3dr handicap loads...

Trap3