But What About Our Ruffed Grouse…?

[Alfred Houde]

Great thread. Pretty much all of the things mentioned are a factor. Ruffed Grouse are cyclic. They have up and down years. I have long felt that the abundance of predators (both winged and four-legged) is the main source of low numbers of not just Grouse, but Quail and Ducks. Extreme dry weather certainly has not helped.

For all of the blather we hear about lead ammunition and "saving the eagles" I see far more eagles, hawks, ospreys, and owls than I ever did as a kid growing up. Fox, Raccoons, Possum, Coyotes, etc. are far too in number. It is true that Trapping numbers are way down for many reasons, and kids simply have no interest. They don't even play outside, why would anyone expect them to put in the work involved in running a small trapline?

WNV has played a role. I was told by a Wildlife Biologist here in Virginia that it does not appear to affect Grouse at higher elevations. One place I hunt in Virginia is over 4,000' and I saw good numbers last season. Good, but not great in the ADK.

Additionally, make no mistake, anti-hunting people have wormed their way into positions within the USFWS and State Fish and Game Departments. It seems that the focus is more on climate change and making our Wildlife Management Areas "more welcoming" than managing them for wildlife.

Keep supporting groups like RGS/AWS, Delta Waterfowl and Ducks Unlimited. They all do good work. I know sometimes it looks like nothing but expensive trips and high-dollar banquets, but we need them to help preserve our heritage.

[Cold Spring]

Originally Posted by TOM DAMIANI

Instead of RGS stressing habitat why not take some of the funds raised by their dinners &dues to supplement $ trapping with bounty on these predators .S.D.does not have a problem with its pheasant population as predators removed quickly on sight as pheasants are a cash supplement for the state.

In 1958 the PA Game Commission’s bounty on foxes and Great Horned Owls was $4.00 and $5.00 respectively, a good incentive when kids were mowing lawns for 25 cents and some factory workers were paid $40./week. Coyotes and fishers weren’t around then and many boys and men trapped for extra money. Raccoons, possums, mink, weasels, foxes, skunks among the nest raiders. Turkeys were pretty scarce and only in the wildest and most remote forested areas. Fast forward to today .... if adjusted for inflation those same bounties would be about $44. and $54. respectively. Anyone think the RGS and/or Game Commission would fund equivalent bounties to help restore the grouse population? Better for both to beat the drums and get people to be doing bs habitat improvement instead of addressing the real issues.

[Dean Romig]

Not a chance Frank…!





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[Jim McKee]

Seems strange when our grouse began declining in the early 1990s, the turkey population began increasing.
The several locations where I hunted over the years held good numbers of grouse but in the early 1990s every place I used to find grouse, the entire hillsides were raked clean by turkeys.
Turkeys in our state are a cash crop for ODNR. Grouse is not a cash crop therefore our ODNR does not care about restoration. The stocking of pheasants is slow changing/reducing- not a cash crop
Yes all the predators have increased, but we are not allowed to legally remove some/many of the species -especially avian
until that changes our game birds will continue to be in trouble

[John Allen]

One of the few places in the mid south that you can still find a few quail is on the Tennessee Kentucky border. There is a community of Menonites there that still farm with horses and shoot anything that gets after their chickens. They farm with limited use of pesticides and still have overgrown fence rows. I have a friend who has permission to hunt some of their land and he and his dogs can still find a few wild coveys. What we are fighting is a combination of habitat loss,modern farming practice, and too many predators.

[Steve Hodges]

Dean, your turkey decline must have been a sudden event. According to the Vt Fish and Game last years season, 2023, was the second highest on record for Vermont. Is the decline just in your area or the whole state of Vt? We had a minor decline in this springs turkey harvest compared to the past five years. It is attributed to the very bad nesting conditions we experienced last spring and summer with very poor poult survival. Or kill is usually comprised of 25% jakes and 75% toms. This years kill was 14% jakes, a sign that we were missing last years poults.

[Double Lab]

Originally Posted by John Allen

One of the few places in the mid south that you can still find a few quail is on the Tennessee Kentucky border. There is a community of Menonites there that still farm with horses and shoot anything that gets after their chickens. They farm with limited use of pesticides and still have overgrown fence rows. I have a friend who has permission to hunt some of their land and he and his dogs can still find a few wild coveys. What we are fighting is a combination of habitat loss,modern farming practice, and too many predators.

Bingo! That has been my experience here in Maryland. Our eastern shore used to be plentiful with wild coveys of quail and then in the late 80's the farming practices changed over night and within a few years the quail were gone. Our DNR also transplanted wild turkeys here and I'm sure they didn't help things as they exploded in numbers and would kill and eat anything, including quail eggs and chicks Change sucks..

[Stan Hillis]

There is yet another avian predator that is not a raptor. It's the African Cattle Egret. They moved into Georgia in the 60s, as I recall. They quickly reproduced by the millions. They stay in colonies and fly to roost in late afternoon after foraging all day. They are especially attracted to farm tractors because they stir up grasshopper, other insects and small reptiles, frogs and bird chicks.

They can be ferocious predators. I've seen, more than once while discing overgrown fields, or inverting peanuts in the fall, a circle of these birds about 6-8 feet in diameter and consisting of maybe 10-12 birds, have a big timber rattler encircled and waiting for the chance to kill it. They feed on anything they can swallow. Rats, mice, snakes, quail chicks, and numerous insects are all tableware for them.

I believe strongly they are another reason for the quail decline in the South. I've often seen them kill a quail chick and swallow it whole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_egret

[Double Lab]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

There is yet another avian predator that is not a raptor. It's the African Cattle Egret. They moved into Georgia in the 60s, as I recall. They quickly reproduced by the millions. They stay in colonies and fly to roost in late afternoon after foraging all day. They are especially attracted to farm tractors because they stir up grasshopper, other insects and small reptiles, frogs and bird chicks.

They can be ferocious predators. I've seen, more than once while discing overgrown fields, or inverting peanuts in the fall, a circle of these birds about 6-8 feet in diameter and consisting of maybe 10-12 birds, have a big timber rattler encircled and waiting for the chance to kill it. They feed on anything they can swallow. Rats, mice, snakes, quail chicks, and numerous insects are all tableware for them.

I believe strongly they are another reason for the quail decline in the South. I've often seen them kill a quail chick and swallow it whole.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cattle_egret

If they are an invasive species then those circling birds would make for some sporty shooting with a .410