PGCA 2011 Raffle gun

[Opening Day]

Robin I think Bruce Day brought in a Parker from Canada a few years ago maybe he can chime in and let us know the in's and out's of this process. Eric

[Bindlestiff]

That doesn't sound to hard, just takes time. I wonder if its as easy to export a gun from the US? Knowing our bureaucrats, it may be harder to get a gun out of the US.

I hope one of the BOD speaks up and makes an "official" statement on selling raffle tickets outside the US. We are a multinational organization with PGCA and forum members in several countries.

[Bindlestiff]

I don't know how you got to automatics? I was referencing the "export" of a Parker raffle gun. Are there duties to be paid, what "import" laws on the receiving country need to be followed. A lot more paper work than a simple transfer to a US citizen I'm sure. Who will do the leg work to get the necessary forms, the PGCA, the winner or both?

My point being that the originally question asked was on point and I don't know if the BOD has even considered this situation.

If the BOD has, Ed would know how to respond to purchases and I could change the web page for the raffle gun to state the position clearly, one way or the other. So the question remains, will the PGCA take on the task of exporting a Parker raffle gun if someone outside the US wins?

[Bruce Day]

Robin, since I obviously wasn't understood, I deleted both posts.

I responded about US exports of a Parker and distinguished the ease of export of a double barreled gun in distinction to something like a semi auto "black gun".

I will not comment on importing a gun into Canada. I leave comments on Canadian law to a Canadian, but will, if asked by my friends on the board, spend time researching the matter, as I do not know it off the top of my head.

I offered to assist the PGCA in getting any US documentation that might be required by Canada. That offer stands.

[Labowner]

Like the DH raffle gun very nice, does anyone have the specs. on it?

[John D.]

Originally Posted by Robin Lewis

....I wonder if its as easy to export a gun from the US?....

Yes, it is easy. The firearm must go through an FFL and either that FFL transfers to an FFL Exporter (USA) OR that FFL must have a current and valid export license. The country it is being exported to - in this case - Canada - the Canadian dealer receiving must be an importer. As a Parker Shotgun is a "Non-Restricted" firearm by Canadian legal definition, it can be imported and transferred by the Importer in Canada to the PGCA Canadian resident/raffle winner, as long as that resident/winner is properly licensed for possession for that type of firearm in Canada.

As well, a Canadian Resident (who is not an Importer) can not take permanent possession of a firearm in the USA (they can borrow one while visiting the US for sporting purposes, as ownership title is not transferred, but - it can't NOT be "Imported" into Canada upon their return) - AND as they are not a US Resident, nor Non-resident alien or not a resident alien - all of whom can legally purchase firearms as outlined in Form 4473 given the substantive requirements for identification for NICS - any permanent transfer is prohibited. If they are a licensed Canadian importer - they can only take possession from a US FFL Exporter, as that firearm has not been previously registered in Canada and has no "export" paperwork leaving Canada with that PGCA Member/winner.

So - yes... It certainly is possible... The "winner" would have the PGCA Raffle firearm shipped to a licensed FFL exporter in the USA, and the Canadian PGCA Member would have to designate a Canadian importer - and then take possession in Canada. And yes, there are fees.

Yea - I answer that question more than 100 times per year.... And many times, I also have to explain it in French, which is not a problem

Hope this helps...

John

[Bindlestiff]

I think I will add the following to the raffle section of the "Events" and "PGCA Store" web pages:

"The Raffle Gun winner is solely responsible for meeting any and all obligations as required in their county, state and/or country by local, state and/or federal laws to their right to own, possess and/or take possession of this firearm".

[TARNATION !!!]

Since I plan to be the winner and am in Canada, upon being informed that I actually am the winner I will have that beautiful gun shipped to an exporting FFL that I know. He will hold it for me while I complete the following rather "simple" process.

First off: I have a Possession and Acquisition Licence (PAL) for non-restricted firearms. So that is taken care of (on the remote chance that another Canadian without a PAL were to win, they will need to get the PAL and you don't just go buy one - you must succeed in passing a full blown course with exam and that can take time)

Secondly: I will apply on-line to the Department of Foreign Affairs and International Trade for an International Import Certficate (IIC) and it's free.

Thirdly: I will apply on-line to the Canadian Firearms Center to register a "newly imported" firearm. (Even though I will never have had the gun in my possession, this step must occur as Canada Border Services will not release the gun without seeing a registration certificate) This step can take a few weeks. Also free.

Fourthly: I will send a copy of the IIC and registration certificate to my exporting FFL. I would normally also send him a "bill of sale" from whomever I purchased a gun but in this case a letter from PGCA indicating I had won the raffle would suffice.

Now I let the FFL do his thing. (NOT FREE) He has to deal with the export paperwork.

Since I am reasonably close to a border crossing that is also right in the heart of pheasant country, I try to time a pick up between Oct 1 and Jan 1. I cross into the US, tell them I'm there only to meet the FFL and take possession of my gun. I wait in my car under the watchful eye of US Border Protection agents. My FFL arrives and takes all the paperwork and the gun inside. He comes out and I follow his car into no-man's land. He gets out, hands me the gun and I hand him an envelope with remuneration for his services. We shake hands. He heads home and I head to the Canadian office. They know why I went in and out of the US because I told them I was doing this. They take possession of the gun while I sit in the car. They verify that the gun is indeed registered to me and that I do indeed have a PAL and IIC for the gun. Then I am invited in to the office to pay Canadian Goods and Services Tax on the purchase price of the gun. In this case, there will be no tax. They then give me my gun and I head to a nearby farmer's land that happens to have great pheasant habitat. I break in the new to me gun and head home with fresh pheasant for a nice dinner.

Now all that border crossing stuff can be avoided by having the exporting FFL send it as John D. mentioned but I make it an enjoyable day when I bring a southern gun north of the 49th.

Hope this helps answer for a Canadian winner, which may as well be me. If not me, I will assist another Canuck get through it if asked.

Cheers,
Jack