Francotte Experts Out There?

[Drew Hause]

It is an earlier term for Nitro powder. Later you mostly see Poudre Vive or Poudre Sans Fumée - Smokeless powder.

Smokeless Powder proof marks

[Dean Weber]

Drew, thanks for your knowledge on this one. With the 2 3/4 chambers and the very pristine condition, I was going in the direction of a more modern gun imported after AF. I am floored that it is a 1920 or earlier gun. Appreciate you passing on your knowledge. Ever seen the side selector on the Francottes?

[Grouse28]

If pre 1920, unreal condition, looks even unfired. Must have been kept in a hermetically sealed box. Very nice!!

[Drew Hause]

The SN dates the DOM to 1903

I've not seen a Francotte side selector.
Here's a sideplate boxlock with a Greener side safety
http://www.safarioutfittersltd.com/EuropeanPage47.htm

At the time of proof the bores were 18.4 mm = .724" and the Belgian typical
Right is ?18.2 = .717" = .007"
Left 17.7 = .693" = .031"

I don't see that the chamber length at proof is indicated; and that was part of optional Smokeless Proof.
It would be marked as 70 (if 2 3/4") over the chamber diameter, usually 20.6 mm for 12g.
Lots of Francotte imports though are marked 2 3/4" on the underside of one barrel.

[Scott Chapman]

I am definitely not an expert on Francotte, but I did notice the AF with crown marks on both of the barrels on the distal end of the barrel flats. Additionally the AF with crown in oval shows up on the receiver.

I read a little farther along in the Double Gun thread (some of it got cut off when attached here) and I found the following:

"One interesting note – in June 1955 the A&F Francotte serial numbers, which had reached up into the 90,000’s, started over with number 1001 – a Knockabout gun. The number of Francotte’s imported picked up again after the war until the 1960’s when the sale of Francotte’s began to be overtaken by the A&F Zoli-Rizzini’s. Francotte continued to manufacture sidelock guns with serial numbers in the high 80,000 and low 90,000 serial range but these were not imported by A&F and do not appear in the A&F record books.

A&F imported a large number of Over/Under shotguns that, while they are not stamped with the Francotte name, do have the maker’s mark ‘AF’ in an oval and topped by a crown among the proof marks. These would also be Francotte shotguns."

So I think this may explain the serial number difference and the AF and crown in oval proof marks. It is possibly a newer (since 1955) Francotte imported by AF.

[Drew Hause]

Neither the action nor barrel flats have a date code.
A 1955 gun would have this Smokeless Proof mark



and the bore and chamber length within a lying Omega; a 1937 gun with a 'p' date code



I have been a bit confused by the bore over muzzle constriction mark, not usually found prior to 1910, which suggests the gun may have been reproved at some point.

Very similar barrel markings on this Von Lengerke & Detmold import which by the SN would be an 1899 DOM
https://www.icollector.com/Pre-War-F...tgun_i13827911

[Dean Weber]

Drew, my main point for posting this was because (exactly as you indicated), it did not have the smokeless proof and it also does not display the chamber (70MM). Your point about the date code also makes sense. This gun screams modern and custom to me.

[Ken Hill]

Dean,

A nice looking gun. How does the side safety work?

Ken

[TxHuntermn]

That is an amazing gun

[davidboyles]

Stunning piece of Belgium craftsmanship. I own one Francotte 20 and a Deforney 16 (7 pin side lock) that is a beautiful balanced gun. I hunted doves and blue quail in NM. It is 2 3/4 ". I think it is late 40's gun. Did anyone notice how fine the checkering is on your gun!! I'm not a stock maker but I venture to say 28 LPI or 30 LPI. Great work they did along with the old standby "Browning." Thanks for showing