Seeking info about two Parkers

[B. Dudley]

They are both fine field grade guns that are in mostly original and unmolested conditon. Re recoil pads on them (i cannot see the back of the 12g, but i assume) are the only non-oriignL modification. But the stock (on the 16g at least, cant tell on the 12 for sure) has not been cut, so things are easily able to be put back to proper configuration if so desired.

[TARNATION !!!]

Bill: If the next generation is going to put the guns back in the field, I would recommend a complete tear down, clean and lube. No doubt the guns will probably shoot without that but when closing in on a century, the innards could use a day at the spa. The three pieces the guns break into - forearm, action and barrels are actually around 100 parts. There will be hardened oil, dirt, grit, rust etc that is not visible and that does interfere with smooth functioning. Make sure the gunsmith is familiar with Parkers. For interest, here are the parts in a Parker VH action. This one is ready for another century now and has already taken a few wild pheasants.

[Tom Flanigan]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

Low brass, high brass doesn't mean anything when it comes to pressure. SAAMI pressure specs for 12-gauge 2 3/4 and 3-inch shells and 16-gauge shells are the same, 11500 maximum average PSI. Very likely those "low brass" promotional shells sold by Wallyworld are loaded to just as high pressures as a 12-gauge 3-inch Magnum shell. They need to work gas operated semi-autos.

No one can tell you over the internet what shells may or may not be safe in a given gun, that requires hands on inspection by a qualified double gun smith with the proper tools. Generally speaking 2-frame 12-gauge and 1-frame 16-gauge steel barrel Parker Bros. guns are plenty strong enough to handle SAAMI spec lead loads. What damages old guns, and old shoulders, is recoil, a function of payload and velocity. To be kind to old wood, and old shoulders, in high volume shooting like Doves or clay targets, stick to light payloads and keep the velocity under 1200 fps.

I guess I should stop using old terms like high brass and low brass. It has nothing to do with pressure, but typically, high brass shells are those with higher speeds, maximum loads and higher pressures. The use of high brass by loading companies is a holdover from black and bulk smokeless days. It is not necessary, but the loading companies still use high brass for their maximum load shells because that is what the public expects. It’s a function of marketing.

Many things affect pressure such as the type of primer, the type of case and the type of wad used. But the biggest factor is the type of powder used.

Heavy and magnum loads use slower burning powder. These slower burning powders create high pressure but it is more extended and burns further down the barrel which is necessary to keep chamber pressure from going off the charts. Faster burning powders are used for lighter payloads. These are the “low brass” loads. The effective chamber pressures are much lower than the slower burning powders.

For example, blue dot powder is a favorite for magnum loads. It is a very slow burning powder. With a poly formed 3 ½ inch case with 2 ¼ oz. of shot, it develops 13,800 psi.

Conversely, a “low brass” load using Winchester compression formed cases, SR 7625 powder and 1 1/8 oz. loads, develop a pressure of only 6,600 psi.

And finally, using a “high brass” Fiocchi case, Herco powder and 1 ¼ oz. load (the typical maximum non- magnum load), the pressure would be 10,900 psi.

I don’t know the pressure of the typical factory target load of 1 1/8 ounce, but it is definitely lower than either the magnum loads or the typical “high brass” 1 ¼ oz. load because of the powder used.

The powder is the primary key. Slow burning powders like Blue Dot for magnum loads and Herco for the typical high velocity 1 ¼ oz. loads create greater pressure than the faster burning powders used in 1 1/8 oz. loads.

All the above data is for 12 gauge. But similar results hold true for all gauges, albeit the smaller the gauge the higher the pressure.

I load all my shotgun shells and therefore know what pressure I am getting from each load. And by using low pressure primers (Remington}, low pressure cases (Federal paper base) and low pressure wads (Remington), I can keep all of my 12 bore loads under 7,000 psi.

It only takes about 8,000 psi to reliably work the action of auto loaders. I suspect that the typical factory target load of 1 1/8 oz. of shot develops between 8,000 and 9,000 psi. We can’t know for sure since the loading companies don’t publish pressures.

Perhaps the best way to buy factory loads is look for the slower feet per second target loads. The speed of the load can be found on many of the boxes. By the way, lower pressure means less felt recoil and therefore is the better choice for older guns.