Normal factory SXS trigger pull weight?

[Southpaw]

I profess that I am ignorant when it comes to standards and methodology for setting trigger pull weights on shotguns. I have heard different theories and liability issues from new gun manufacturers. I completely get it when hunting with a rifle about trigger weights, but just not as concerned on shotguns as long as it's not something obscene like 10 lbs.

Personally what I like in a shotgun trigger is a firm smooth and consistent action, where the trigger is not wobbly or shaky but is firm and solid. As long as the pull weight is no more than 5 or 7 poundish then I am okay with that for me in a game gun. There is just so much quick movement and activity in shotgun shooting that higher trigger pull weights give me a little more sense of security.

For me getting a trigger pull weight on shotgun close to what you would expect for a rifle is just dangerous. Most rifle shots are prepared dedicated action over an extended period. Most shotguns situations have you mounting the gun smoothly as slide safety off and shooting the gun quickly and in sometimes tight cover with poor balance in brush etc. Nope, trigger that takes a little extra effort in those circumstances doesn't bother me a bit.

Besides I can't think of a single time where I missed a shot because of trigger weight, its mostly because I did not mount the gun right or stopped my swing on a sustained lead. Again maybe I am ignorant could be a great excuse for missing that I need to add to repertoire. "Damn trigger weight was too heavy and cost me a split second as that bird flew behind that tree I just shot". Second thought maybe something to it. Dang, I now need to go check my trigger pulls.

Did Parker publish a recommended setting for trigger pull weights.

[Craig Budgeon]

Your not ignorant if you do not understand trigger pulls or how they are set, however, consistently missing the target and not trying to resolve the problem maybe lazy.

[Southpaw]

No argument there about lazy missing, guilty. However I have learned their are two types of shooters, some that miss shots from time to time and others that are about to miss. But again if you read my post about why I think I miss a shot has little to do with pull weight for me with shotguns. That's just me though. Someone else fine tuning that weight just might make a difference for them or at least make them happy so they may want to fine tune it. For me I don't see the need but if your maybe a competition shooter and fine tuning that trigger to get that edge to make one extra target might make the difference, might not. I don't know. There is my ignorance.

Why I miss a target or bird is my own burden though. BTW years ago I spent a weekend shooting with a fella named Todd Rogers right before they came out with that Orvis Guide to Gunfitting. He was/is one of the Orvis shooting instructors and was on the cover of one of their shooting books. Went to a station and he had me shoot a box of shells at going away targets. Hit 25 out 25. He never said a word until the very end and just watched me shoot at different targets and then he tore into me. Everything from foot work, gun positioning, gun mount, pivoting, to actually slowing everything down since he thought I was rushing shots. I had developed wrong instincts and habits and he taught me how and where to focus and correct the issues. Even went quail hunting with him a few times and he was a heck of a coach, while actually normal hunting he would stand behind me watching me shoot at birds from covey rises. With his coaching I hit 3 doubles in row on covey rises. But just to be clear these were semi wild birds that flew pretty good but still not wild quail. Still had never done that before. Stuff works if you learn it, practice it, do not deviate too much and apply it. He also talked some about gun fit but again he did not mention anything having to so much with trigger pull. I think its low on the totem pole of indicative signs leading to misses at least for me and he had more than enough to correct, than pick on my gun.

We did get to talk about some of the guns he had seen clients bring in to learn to shoot, lots of bespoke guns that were fitted. Some of those guns were so expensive he said he was afraid to even handle. All in all a good guy. He even bought a gun from a friend of mine that he saw and just fell in love with it. He was not a big fan of old shotguns though because of the amount of drop, and it was harder for instinctive shooting. He did say if you learn to shoot with an old gun stay with it, because flip flopping always create's some issues, some will disagree and I do some, but we were just talking over a few cold beers at the end of the day. He was also more of an O/U guy, but that is a different reason.

[MD*GSP]

Originally Posted by Craig Budgeon

Richard, the intent of a lighter rear trigger pull is not to make it lighter, the intent is to make the sear engagement identical to the front trigger. When equal engagement is achieved the rear trigger pulls up to a half pound less because of the increased distance from the axis to the finger pull. In addition to your theory of reasons to increase rear trigger pull, Dan @ MST shared a popular theory there, that since rear triggers have more leverage, pull weight is increased so that it feels like the front trigger. To me this theory is BS and furthermore increasing trigger pulls also increases sear wear.

Craig, thank you for the mechanical explanation regarding front & rear trigger pulls.

Your statement however, is contradictory. On one hand you provide the mechanical explanation for a higher rear trigger pull (leverage) but then, call BS on the very same principal cited by another, that, supports your explanation

Maybe you're simply saying an increased pull on the rear trigger is unnecessary? Can you elaborate??

[Craig Budgeon]

I share points of view other than my own even if I don't agree with the reasoning behind them. Front triggers should be set at a predetermined pull rate and the rear trigger should be within a 1/2 lb.less than the front. Personally I have never heard a good case for increasing rear trigger pulls. I'm sure not all agree and they are not wrong if they have point of view that works for them.

[MD*GSP]

Okay

I'm not well versed in triggers and I'm trying to learn if you'd be kind enough to share with more specificity.

Can you please explain the undue wear that a sear suffers as a result of a marginally heavier trigger pull designed to equalize the perceived trigger weight front & rear?

Granted, it may only be a trick of the mind however, if I feel (perceive) a lighter weight of a rear trigger, I tend to brace myself for a double-fire when I fire-off the right barrel. If that's not a recipe for developing a flinch, I don't know what is..

[Craig Budgeon]

The Question was asked about Parker publishing trigger pull rates. I have never seen anything published attributed to Parker Bros. and trigger pulls. Since there are so many variables such as target, hunting, gauge, personnel preference, and liability I doubt they published any numbers. Furthermore, I'm sure management wanted to retain all service work on Parkers in house and publishing specs wouldn't support that.

[Craig Budgeon]

Scot, the closer to 90 degrees the sear engagement is the lower the trigger pull rates. As the engagement angle decreases (becomes more acute) surface area increases, friction increases, and pull rates increase thus causing accelerated wear. In addition there should be NO radius in the corner of the engagement of the sear. A mirror finish on sear and hammer engagements produces smooth trigger pulls. Boxlocks and sidelocks are similar but different, since sears are longer in boxlocks generally. Finally if you don't have the proper tools or are inexperienced leave the damn sears alone.

[MD*GSP]

Excellent Craig, thank you for clearing that up because what you laid out is precisely how I understand trigger pulls although, I don't have hands on experience to match my understanding of such.

I personally don't buy the fact that friction at the levels we're discussing will cause undue wear but, that's okay. Further, if the edges are sharp and clearances are correct, the trigger should "break like glass"..as the saying goes. Further still, proper clearance will ensure no rounding of the leading edge of the sear with use.

Thanks again for the good post and the detail offered.

*edited to add: if one hasn't the experience and right tools (pinned jigs and a microscope) it's best left to someone who does..great pc of advice, Craig.

[Craig Budgeon]

Scot, if you shoot a box or 2 thru your guns every year your GOOD guns will easily outlive you without checking trigger pulls. If you own a 60's era Spanish double or Central Arms double, you should have it checked before you shoot it again! If your an avid target shooter or prefer driven birds you may want your guns tuned up after 10/20 years due to normal wear.