Tell Tale Signs of a Re-Stock

[Bruce Day]

Well I’m a novice on these matters and I have to rely on the real experts.

[B. Dudley]

Well, i dont know... lets take a poll.

[Bindlestiff]

Stocks are stamped with the gun's ser# under the trigger guard. See this link: http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...t=stock+number

[Southpaw]

Got it. Thanks. I am not looking there unless I think there are issues if I am considering purchasing another gun that it is giving me pause, then will ask owner to remove it show it. Have never checked on my gun and hopefully won't need to.

[Bindlestiff]

If we are buying a collector grade gun that is all original, we pay a premium. If it's not all original but you think it is and you pay that premium, that's going to be a problem. I know about one such Parker that traded hands many years ago that ended up as a court case. It was purported to be something it wasn't ....

[Dean Romig]

That doesn't surprise me at all Robin. If we only knew about others...





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[Southpaw]

Gun transactions are typically private affairs and not recorded anywhere for public consumption. Some of these auctions do, but I think its foolish if I am a buyer wanting that information disclosed. Hence market value can be completely subjective; however, fraud is fraud. If you make representations, warrants and guarantees that something is different then what it actually is and you know differently then that is fraudulent activity, no matter what the price is. If a seller has a shadow of doubt, disclose everything you know and tell them "As Is", hence you may or may not get a premium, but your not lying.

Puffery is one thing but flat out lies should/will get you into trouble. Otherwise I have some Rolex watches I need to sell you with a smooth Seiko movement.

[chris dawe]

For what its worth right or wrong ...I don't usually stamp a serial number unless its requested ....usually its just my initials ....I did have a customer once ask me to restamp mismatched serial no's on a collector grade military rifle with a mismatched bolt ,I refused .... but apparently its quite common in those circles .

[B. Dudley]

Todd, i agree on fraud. And fraud would be defined as a person who has knowledge of something and communicates something different. And then there are the unfortunate folks after the fraud who are left holding the bag. Sometimes multiple parties if something changes hands multiple times.

My intention in mentioning serial numbers in the wood is that yes, it is a pretty good way of determining originality, 99.9% of the time. But... As people always say, never say never. Heck, the gun could have been a factory restock, not aftermarket.

In regards to gunsmiths and restoration work. Not everyone keeps every gun that they restore until the day they die. I personally am surprised at the turnover rate sometimes.
A gun has some restoration work done to it (whatever it may be) then a couple years later it has changed hands a few times and it is seen sitting on a dealers table being advertised as original. Is it the Smiths fault that something got lost in translation along the way?

[Southpaw]

Brian I agree with your sentiments and I appreciated Chris Dawes comments along with yours. This is not even my thread but I am learning more about specifics of these guns. I was unaware of the stock stamp and that is a neat trick if your doing a deep dive on a gun. I love archaeology and collecting, talking about these guns is a bit like it.

In regard to restoration and needed gunsmith work I think to each his own. I like and appreciate very good work and some people want their old guns to look and work like new and possibly fit them. History of guns and what was done to them and used for creates intrigue, but does it devalue? I don't believe honest gunsmith and restoration work is negative it just needs to be honest and relayed with history of gun. Sometimes history is forgotten. I don't think that should translate back to an honest tradesman as doing something wrong unless they are reping and warranting something that is not, but even then it has caveats.

There is a fine line between cons and forgeries and restoration work. What if the Parker Reproductions came out and said these were all Factory Original Parkers? Some would take umbrage, some could care less. What if you sent them a gun made in 1907 and asked them to restore? Nothing wrong with it as long as it possibly is communicated with history of gun.

I really agree with your sentiment about factory work. Say there was an old Parker that someone broke the stock on back in the 40's. What if that person knew someone that was still around that worked in the factory and made stocks and replaced it to make it look like it did 30 years earlier. That could be like asking Rembrandt to restore a painting that someone doused with wine. Did those events change the value of the painting or a gun, to me not, to others it is tainted. I think same standard applies with current work done by skilled tradesmen.

Ultimately every one that views these guns as investments are concerned with market forces. A market transaction is defined as both a knowledgeable buyer and seller acting prudently and in their own perspective best interest. If someone is trying dupe or present something false that they know differently then that is fraud, but still the other party should be doing their due diligence. P.T Barnum always gets credit for saying there is a sucker born every minute, except he never really said it. A banker named David Hannum supposedly coined that phrase with regard to one of Barnum's side show hoaxes, it just stuck with Barnum. Hannum probably even the got the phrase from someone else.

Years ago I knew someone that invested in one of those Fisher treasure scams. He sent Fisher a few thousand bucks thinking he was going to get rich when Fisher finds his next Spainish ship wreck. Part of the con was that he received a package with a few silver coins after about a year that were supposedly discovered at the wreck sight they were funding. Said they needed more money to get a bigger boat to get the treasure. He was so proud of the coins and was about to send more money and he was showing me the coins. Said he was going to take some of the silver coins and melt them to make a chain and then have one coin attached to the chain to make it a good luck piece. Luckily me and a few others stopped him from ruining the coins and sending more money.