Please help determine value and condition of my Parker Brothers 16 gauge

[Bruce Hering]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

I don't see any evidence of "plugs" in place. To me it looks like those triangular sections below both the top and bottom ribs and made of plain lead. If the barrels had been shortened by Parker Bros. the steel keels would have been replaced..

Dean: OK... "keels" and yea they do look like something other then steel but that does not answer the question as far as the barrels touching each other. Also, there is the possibility the muzzle area of the barrels has not been "cleaned up" and as I am sure you know, different steels respond differently chemically to air, sunshine, time, and use (they do have the look of lead). It is also my understanding that in order to bring the barrels together after a "cut down" the ribs would need to be striped and relayed which is more then most local, non factory cut off jobs get.

Just thinking out loud.

[Dean Romig]

I don’t know what benefit could be derived from closing a gap of some 3/64th of an inch between the barrels. I don’t think there would be a discernable difference in how it shot/POI.





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[Bruce Hering]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

I don’t know what benefit could be derived from closing a gap of some 3/64th of an inch between the barrels. I don’t think there would be a discernable difference in how it shot/POI..

Dean: I guess I could agree with there being no point in closing such a small gap as you alliterated but in this case, the discussion point is I do not see, after blowing that picture up, any discernable gap between the barrels at what should be their contact point. Thats my point.

If the barrels were cut back there would be a gap.... and there is no gap.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Bruce Hering

Dean: If the barrels were cut back there would be a gap.... and there is no gap.

Not necessarily. It all depends on how far back from the muzzle the barrels remain in contact and how much of the barrels was cut off.





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[Bruce Hering]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

Not necessarily. It all depends on how far back from the muzzle the barrels remain in contact and how much of the barrels was cut off.

Dean: OK... but then how can some say those barrels were cut without knowing exactly what barrels that gun came from the factory with and know the length of contact. Knowing that, might at least, provide some accuracy. So what would the normal length of contact be on a gun such as the OP has posted ?

I really want to see the factory info on this gun. It may well humble me in my questioning but I have been there before.

Thanks for your input. I hope the OP will post his findings when he get his letter.

[Dean Romig]

I too hope the OP will post his findings/contents of the letter.

To be certain of cut barrels I rely on both a lack of accepted rib termination matting/termination line and vacant 1/8” along with a lack of steel keels properly installed.





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[Bruce Hering]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

I too hope the OP will post his findings/contents of the letter.

To be certain of cut barrels I rely on both a lack of accepted rib termination matting/termination line and vacant 1/8” along with a lack of steel keels properly installed.

Dean: I find your criteria interesting and legitimate for determining and identifying these as cut off barrels. However, the only photo of said barrels does not show the top of the top rib which would verify rib termination, matting, etc. Am I wrong ?

[Dean Romig]

I agree however, the lack of keels by itself seals the deal in my opinion.
Parker Brothers would never let a gun out the door without keels.





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[Bruce Hering]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

I agree however, the lack of keels by itself seals the deal in my opinion.
Parker Brothers would never let a gun out the door without keels.

OK..... Thanks.

[edgarspencer]

We have seen recent examples, and recent discussion on barrels touching at the muzzle. I remember several owners stating that their barrels were not touching and were known to be original length.

Conversely, barrels which touch is not definitive proof that barrels were NOT cut. This I know first hand as I handled a set of Titanic Barrels, known to have left the factory at 30", cut to 28", still touching, and keels still plainly visible. There is no termination line. Lack of a definite termination is occasionally seen on Uncut Vulcan barrels, but I have never seen it missing on Titanic barrels of original length. As one would expect, a 30" gun, often full choked in one, if not both barrels, and then cut to 28" will still have a measurable choke constriction. Believe this or don't: I have a set of barrels, NOW 24", which WERE 30", and they touch at the muzzle!

I don't think anyone can emphatically state that the keels were of a specific length. They could be an inch long, they could be 2-3" long. One thing about barrel construction I'm pretty sure of, is that the keels extended beyond the muzzle, at any random length, and were trimmed flush is the finishing operation. If they are NOT visible, it's an almost sure bet the barrels have been cut.
Lead and steel oxidize entirely differently, so I wouldn't place much in the idea they don't show because they've been sitting around.

It is my opinion (and yours may differ) that the keels serve no useful purpose AFTER the barrels have been completed. The solder bond to barrel, to the other barrel, to the keel, and to the rib isn't very likely to be any stronger because of the random piece of steel used to fill the void and keep everything in place when it's wire bound and soldered.