Cowboy BP 8 & 10 loads

[StubTwist]

Originally Posted by Forrest Grilley

I have a Ferguson breech loading flintlock rifle that I have experimented with Swiss powder. At 100 yards switching from 3F Goex to 3F Swiss will raise the point of impact of the ball by 9 inches. I need to borrow a chronograph to find out what the actual change in velocity is, but just going by trajectory, it is significant.

9" change in point of impact is pretty significant I'd say too! I'd be curious how much increase in velocity you are getting with Swiss compared to Goex.

I did some searching to no avail regarding pressures but I did find this. To give credit where credit is due, I found it here http://blackpowderblog.blogspot.com/

One thing to bear in mind is that most folks believe that current-day blackpowder, Goex in particular, is significantly weaker than mass-produced blackpowder of the 18th and 19th centuries. this article notes 1250 fps as the velocity of a minie ball fired from a Civil War musket imported from England. If you were to use an equivalent charge of Goex 2F to propel the minie ball, velocity would likely be <1000 fps. The difference in powder strength is attributed to the charcoal used in the manufacture of the powder. Even today, no one disputes that Swiss powder, which is constructed of a different charcoal from Goex, produces higher velocities (and more recoil) on a weight-to-weight basis than Goex. So ... it would seem that there is some basis for the argument that blackpowder was originally stronger than what we have today. but I digress ....

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by Frank Cronin

9" change in point of impact is pretty significant I'd say too! I'd be curious how much increase in velocity you are getting with Swiss compared to Goex.

I did some searching to no avail regarding pressures but I did find this. To give credit where credit is due, I found it here http://blackpowderblog.blogspot.com/

One thing to bear in mind is that most folks believe that current-day blackpowder, Goex in particular, is significantly weaker than mass-produced blackpowder of the 18th and 19th centuries. this article notes 1250 fps as the velocity of a minie ball fired from a Civil War musket imported from England. If you were to use an equivalent charge of Goex 2F to propel the minie ball, velocity would likely be <1000 fps. The difference in powder strength is attributed to the charcoal used in the manufacture of the powder. Even today, no one disputes that Swiss powder, which is constructed of a different charcoal from Goex, produces higher velocities (and more recoil) on a weight-to-weight basis than Goex. So ... it would seem that there is some basis for the argument that blackpowder was originally stronger than what we have today. but I digress ....

Outstanding find, thank you! That goes right along with what I have been led to believe as well. After learning about the properties of the antique sporting powders, I am much less apprehensive of using the so called "fast" burning 3F Goex. I need to do more experimenting/learning before I take the leap to heavy loads of 3F Swiss, but the results may put my modern 3" duck loads to shame. Which the Goex loads I am already experimenting with are pretty close to doing as it is. My old fashioned blackpowder and card wad 10 ga loads already pattern tighter and more uniformly than any of the bismuth loads I have been able to load up in my Ruger Red Label.

[Paul Harm]

First, everyone I know uses volume, not weight, when measuring Black Powder. Second, going from 2F to 3F will raise pressure and velocity. In my 12ga loads I go from 92grs of 2F to 65grs of 3F - this is with a 12ga smooth bore muzzleloader with a .715 patched round ball and get the same point of impact. With my Parkers and 1oz of shot I use either 92grs of 2F or 75grs of 3F. The 92gr load is only for effect - when I like to surprise other shooters - although I will admitt it kills birds or clay birds quite well. Thirty some years ago I built a 8ga O/U muzzleloader that weighed 15 pounds. I loaded 400grs of 1F and 4oz of shot. It would push me over if I wasn't standing right - but it was death on geese at 60 to 70 yards. In the Lyman BP Handbook [ for muzzleloaders ] they show 102grs 2f and a 1 1/4oz giving a 1200FPS for 12ga. In a different reloading manual for shotshells 1330 FPS for 102grs. In 10ga only 1270 for the same charge. It would appear the 8ga load would be lower yet. Those 8ga's were meant for some heavy loads, and I don't think you're even close. I wouldn't go with the 3F unless you keep the load down from what you'd be useing with 2F. If you're just loading for Cowboy shooting at clays why load a heavy one ? Now hunting - 130 of 2F sounds nice. Happy shooting to ya - Paul

[StubTwist]

Now that is impressive! 400 grains with 4 oz of shot!!!!!!

[charlie cleveland]

do you still shoot the 8 ga paul... 49 grains blue dot and 3 oz has been my top load..it patterned on paper really good... charlie

[Paul Harm]

The gun is gone. I forge knives and did gun shows at one time. I would set the big 8ga on the table to draw in customers. Had a for sale sign on it = thought it was too high but a guy put the money on the table and took the gun. Never said a word - didn't ask any questions. I looked at the wife and said, " I really didn't want to sell that gun ". Oh well.

[charlie cleveland]

have done the same thing with cars...sure would have like to have the old 8 ga and would like to have shot it at least once with that 4 oz load...maybe you will build another one some day... charlie