Chamber lengths

[Austin W Hogan]

Parker ten ga guns in the sub 4000 s/n range have 2 5/8 inch chambers. According to pre 1900 Parker catalogs, the customer could specify the chamber length. According to Winchester and UMC catalogs of the era, the customer could specify the shell length if case lots were purchased.
Best, Austin

[Blind Dog]

Dave, My 10ga lifter, #12465, goes 2&5/8" to the step; no forcing cone.

[J.B. Books]

I guess I should have added to my question(s), when did 2 7/8" shells become "standard" for the 10 bore? What length shell was "standard" before that for the 10? Is there evidence Parker thought shorter chambers made for a better gas seal in 10ga?

[Austin W Hogan]

Pete; I don't think anything was "standard" in the US before the for runner to SAAMI was established in the 1920's. There is no proof law in the US, and arms and ammunition manufacturers established cartridge dimensions independently or in cooperation.

Several years ago, I bought quite literally, a shopping bag full of old loading components. After reading your post today I remeasured some UMC and USCCo No10 primed paper cases which have never been loaded. Both makes measured 2 7/8 inch overall and 2 13/16 inch from case mouth to the radius at the rim of the brass.

This discussion occurs about three times a year. About five years ago , in response to one of these discussions, I did some dumpster diving and brought home one or two each of each color case discarded at the skeet field. I measured these with a machinist scale and found most were 2 5/8 to 2 11/16 inch long. A few were 2 11/16 to 2 3/4 inch, and I did find some that were uneven that exceeded 2 3/4 inch in length.

We ran a query, several times, in Parker Pages, seeking the source of the theory that long shells provided a better gas seal and better patterns, when fired in a chamber of shorter length. Ed Muderlak found the article, and we printed it about a year ago. A well recog nized arms industry employee found that shooting 3 inch 410 shells in 2 1/2 inch chambers tightend the patterns, although more than 1/2 inch was burned off each case fired. It is reported, but not supported , that major arms makers shortened chambers in the 1930's to incorporate this finding. They apparently discontinued the short chamber policy prior to resumption of sporting arms production following WW 2.

This article was published in the early 1930's. Any Parker with s/n less than 236000 was made prior to the circulation of this idea.

I will close with my favorite Parker chamber length story. My second Parker gun was a trap with BTFE. I bought it from a well known and respected dealer who measured the chokes and chamber lengths in my presence before I purchased it. I later measured the chokes and chamber length by several methods for an article in the old PP. The chambers always measured a little more than 2 3/4 inches. I sold the gun a few years ago. The new owner told me that he had a very reputable gunsmith measure the chambers before he used it. The gunsmith measured the chambers at 2 5/8 and lengthened them.

From these experiences, I have concluded that there is no standard shell length or chamber depth. However, if a shell fails or separates when fired, less damage will be done
to a gun with long chambers.

Best, Austin

[Labowner]

I have had a well known smith tell me I had short chambers when he had lengthened them a couple years earlier for the previous owner.

[Researcher]

Those specification sheets in The Parker Story on pages 164 to 169 call for a 2 3/4 inch chamber for the 2 7/8 inch Super-Ten shell.

My feeling is that the practice of holding chambers an 1/8 inch shorter then the shell goes a lot earlier then the 1930s. The only two A.H. Fox Gun Co. catalogues I've found that mention chamber lengths are the 1913 and 1914, and they both state that Ansley H. Fox guns are regularly chambered for 2 3/4 inch shells in 12-gauge, 2 9/16 inch shells in 16-gauge and 2 1/2 inch shells in 20-gauge. However, on unmolested guns from throughout the Philadelphia era, the chambers usually measure 2 5/8 in 12-gauge, 2 7/16 in 16-gauge and a hair over 2 3/8 in 20-gauge. I have an AE-Grade 20-gauge from 1920 that states on the order card "chamber for 2 3/4 inch shells" and the chambers are in fact 2 5/8 inch.

[Bill Murphy]

Robert, thirty some years ago, a well known gunsmith billed me for boring a short chambered Parker to 2 3/4". A couple of years ago I measured the chambers and somehow they were back to 2 1/2". I have fired thousands of 2 3/4" shells out of that gun. PM me the name of your gunsmith and I'll reply with the name of mine.

[Pittypatdugan]

Asa Kelley and I both had the chambers lengthened on the same gun, a 20 Ga
VH. They must grow as they get older. From all this information, we need to measure them again.

PDD

[Bill Murphy]

All that problem would be solved if no one gave any money to the barrel butchers. I can't think of any reason to fool with the inside of a barrel except to remove rust. "A fool and his money....."

[Pittypatdugan]

I wanted to shoot some 28 Ga shells to see if I would like an O frame 28 Ga Parker that a man south of Albany had for sale for $5000 several years ago.
I bought some little skeeters that converted the chambers to 28 Ga. on one of my 20 gauge Parkers. They fit fine and shot fine in one gun and not the other. The chambers were short in the gun they would not fit into. Later I had them lengthened and the recoil seemed to be less. No, I did not buy the gun because I thought why buy a real heavy 28 Ga Parker. Asa Kelley later found me an OO frame 28 which I now shoot. If I had to do it over, No I would not have the chambers lengthened.

PDD