No wonder we were afraid of Damascus

[Researcher]

A desperate attempt to sell some new guns during the Great Depression. Nobody seemed to push it more than Lou Smith of Ithaca.

The 20 gauge loads have a small round sticker on the crimp with the shell length and shot size on it.

That is not the shell length it is the drams equivalent of the load of progressive burning smokeless powder in the shell. Same as would have been on the top wad of a roll crimp shell.

ARROW 20-gauge, 2 1-2 inch 06.jpg

This insert is in a box of Western Super-X 10-gauge shells if immediately post WW-II era.

Super-X 10-gauge blue & yellow box insert.jpeg

[Dean Romig]

There have always been, and will always be, lawyers...





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[Mike of the Mountain]

Originally Posted by Daniel Carter

If i recall correctly the warning came about in the 1930's yet smokeless powder had been in use for many years. If so why the lag in the warning of 25 years?

Mostly due to guys reloading shells with equal weight of nitro for black. That is a recipe for disaster even with modern guns. Not every shooter was reloading with smokeless when it first appeared so it did take a few years for the reloaders to catch up with the modern propellants.

[Mills]

I think Mike is right, although I also think the gun manufacturers loved an excuse for everyone to buy a new gun

[Dylan Rhodes]

Originally Posted by Mills Morrison

I think Mike is right, although I also think the gun manufacturers loved an excuse for everyone to buy a new gun

I also love an excuse to buy a new gun....

[Mills]

I am the master of excuses to buy new guns

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Mike Koneski

Mostly due to guys reloading shells with equal weight of nitro for black. That is a recipe for disaster even with modern guns. Not every shooter was reloading with smokeless when it first appeared so it did take a few years for the reloaders to catch up with the modern propellants.

True, but I think fluid steel barrels would have suffered the same catastrophic failures when fired with such loads as did some Damascus barreled guns.





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[Woodcock survey]

I remember a previous discussion on this forum in which someone posted ads and warnings that appeared in the press at the time warning about not using your black powder measure to load the new smokeless powder by volume. It was found to be the reason that barrels were failing because of the gross overload. Once people became aware of that the problem went away until 1937 or so when the warnings appeared.

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

A pretty exhaustive study of damascus barrels and pressures was featured in the Double Gun Journal some years back.
Many of the problems in the 20s and 30s were traced back to cheap twist or damascus barrels made in Belgium in guns that found their way into the USA.

The quality of Parker Bros. damascus barrels and their inherent strength was demonstrated in this article.

There are damascus barrels and then there are other damascus barrels. Caveat emptor.

[LtCol Henderson Marriott]

Just reviewed the excellent series of special subjects toward the end of the
LC Smith Collectors site forums.

Comprehensive listing of powders, black vs nitro; use of Damascus guns and nitro shell loading of smokeless or semi-smokeless by weight rather than volume;
AND the size of some 3 1/4 inch 12 ga shells used by competitors in live pigeon shoots
like Gilbert.

The LC Smith LCSCA forums hold an amazing amount of valuable information.

Dr. Drew Hause at the Double Gun and the LCSCA site also shows the results of excess pressure, barrel obstructions, and heavy loads in both
Damascus, Bernard, twist steel AND fluid steel "modern" shotgun barrels: caveat pressures.

Makes one almost check bores after every brace of ducks, grouse, dove or clays.