But What About Our Ruffed Grouse…?

[sparky]

Instead of RGS stressing habitat why not take some of the funds raised by their dinners &dues to supplement $ trapping with bounty on these predators .S.D.does not have a problem with its pheasant population as predators removed quickly on sight as pheasants are a cash supplement for the state.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by John Allen

Another factor that the fish and game people don't want to talk about is the rise in turkey populations. In the south our wild quail have all but disappeared. So have a lot of ground nesting birds like meadow larks. If you watch a flock of turkeys move through a field,they are constantly eating. A quail or grouse chick is no bigger that most insects. This plus the increase in other predators makes it hard for any ground nesting birds to increase.

True John, in most areas but where I hunt in Vermont, along with the serious decline of ruffed grouse numbers, there ia an alarming decline in turkey numbers as well.





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[Alfred Houde]

Great thread. Pretty much all of the things mentioned are a factor. Ruffed Grouse are cyclic. They have up and down years. I have long felt that the abundance of predators (both winged and four-legged) is the main source of low numbers of not just Grouse, but Quail and Ducks. Extreme dry weather certainly has not helped.

For all of the blather we hear about lead ammunition and "saving the eagles" I see far more eagles, hawks, ospreys, and owls than I ever did as a kid growing up. Fox, Raccoons, Possum, Coyotes, etc. are far too in number. It is true that Trapping numbers are way down for many reasons, and kids simply have no interest. They don't even play outside, why would anyone expect them to put in the work involved in running a small trapline?

WNV has played a role. I was told by a Wildlife Biologist here in Virginia that it does not appear to affect Grouse at higher elevations. One place I hunt in Virginia is over 4,000' and I saw good numbers last season. Good, but not great in the ADK.

Additionally, make no mistake, anti-hunting people have wormed their way into positions within the USFWS and State Fish and Game Departments. It seems that the focus is more on climate change and making our Wildlife Management Areas "more welcoming" than managing them for wildlife.

Keep supporting groups like RGS/AWS, Delta Waterfowl and Ducks Unlimited. They all do good work. I know sometimes it looks like nothing but expensive trips and high-dollar banquets, but we need them to help preserve our heritage.

[Cold Spring]

Originally Posted by TOM DAMIANI

Instead of RGS stressing habitat why not take some of the funds raised by their dinners &dues to supplement $ trapping with bounty on these predators .S.D.does not have a problem with its pheasant population as predators removed quickly on sight as pheasants are a cash supplement for the state.

In 1958 the PA Game Commission’s bounty on foxes and Great Horned Owls was $4.00 and $5.00 respectively, a good incentive when kids were mowing lawns for 25 cents and some factory workers were paid $40./week. Coyotes and fishers weren’t around then and many boys and men trapped for extra money. Raccoons, possums, mink, weasels, foxes, skunks among the nest raiders. Turkeys were pretty scarce and only in the wildest and most remote forested areas. Fast forward to today .... if adjusted for inflation those same bounties would be about $44. and $54. respectively. Anyone think the RGS and/or Game Commission would fund equivalent bounties to help restore the grouse population? Better for both to beat the drums and get people to be doing bs habitat improvement instead of addressing the real issues.

[Dean Romig]

Not a chance Frank…!





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[Jim McKee]

Seems strange when our grouse began declining in the early 1990s, the turkey population began increasing.
The several locations where I hunted over the years held good numbers of grouse but in the early 1990s every place I used to find grouse, the entire hillsides were raked clean by turkeys.
Turkeys in our state are a cash crop for ODNR. Grouse is not a cash crop therefore our ODNR does not care about restoration. The stocking of pheasants is slow changing/reducing- not a cash crop
Yes all the predators have increased, but we are not allowed to legally remove some/many of the species -especially avian
until that changes our game birds will continue to be in trouble

[Harry Gietler]

In Western New York in the 50's & 60's Wyoming County had a $5 bounty
OR a Case of Beer on Fox's, there were State Trappers who Trapped them
12 months of the year. I ALSO TRAPPED , but only when the hides were prime. There was no closed season on Fox on till about 1980.We had ''NO'' Coyotes untill
that same year when our D.E.C. Released them in Western New York.
Their intentions were to ''KILL'' OFF OUR DEER OR Greatly Reduce Them.
So far it hasn't ''Worked''.

Harry

P.S. IT WAS OPEN SEASON ON HAWKS & OWLS THAN. Also every Hawk we saw was ''A Chicken Hawk''

[John Allen]

One of the few places in the mid south that you can still find a few quail is on the Tennessee Kentucky border. There is a community of Menonites there that still farm with horses and shoot anything that gets after their chickens. They farm with limited use of pesticides and still have overgrown fence rows. I have a friend who has permission to hunt some of their land and he and his dogs can still find a few wild coveys. What we are fighting is a combination of habitat loss,modern farming practice, and too many predators.

[Steve Hodges]

Dean, your turkey decline must have been a sudden event. According to the Vt Fish and Game last years season, 2023, was the second highest on record for Vermont. Is the decline just in your area or the whole state of Vt? We had a minor decline in this springs turkey harvest compared to the past five years. It is attributed to the very bad nesting conditions we experienced last spring and summer with very poor poult survival. Or kill is usually comprised of 25% jakes and 75% toms. This years kill was 14% jakes, a sign that we were missing last years poults.

[Double Lab]

Originally Posted by John Allen

One of the few places in the mid south that you can still find a few quail is on the Tennessee Kentucky border. There is a community of Menonites there that still farm with horses and shoot anything that gets after their chickens. They farm with limited use of pesticides and still have overgrown fence rows. I have a friend who has permission to hunt some of their land and he and his dogs can still find a few wild coveys. What we are fighting is a combination of habitat loss,modern farming practice, and too many predators.

Bingo! That has been my experience here in Maryland. Our eastern shore used to be plentiful with wild coveys of quail and then in the late 80's the farming practices changed over night and within a few years the quail were gone. Our DNR also transplanted wild turkeys here and I'm sure they didn't help things as they exploded in numbers and would kill and eat anything, including quail eggs and chicks Change sucks..