Chokes and Chambers

[Bruce Day]

See below

Also see the attached Parker chamber length table.

[C.O.B.]

I error on the side of caution and shoot 2 1/2 inch shells in everything from 12 to 410. I don't have to worry about anything that way and if your going to buy shells I would use the 2 1/2 inch RST. Morris just sent me some 16 & 20 ga paper shells that I will use for birds. You can't beat a vintage shotgun and paper shells.

[Jack Kuzepski]

Plastic shells may reload easier and more times but they still don't equal paper, particularly for the smell!

Jack

[Steve Havener]

Bruce I don't know where or when you got you AA hull but they short changed you.

[Researcher]

Paper Shot Shell Lengths

In reviewing old Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogues and price lists, the first time I see mention of extra length paper shot shells is in the 1889 catalogue, before they were offering any smokeless powder shells. Smokeless powder begins appearing in the 1891 catalogue. After the introduction of smokeless powder loads the first catalogue I’ve found to offer longer paper shells is 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths, 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch lengths, while 16-gauge is just 2 9/16 inch and 20-gauge just 2 1/2 inch. In the September 1896 catalogue they offer 12-gauge paper "Smokeless" shell in lengths up to 3-inch. All brass 10- and 12-gauge NPEs were offered up to 3 1/4 inch length. By the April 1899 UMC Catalogue things are really taking off and they've added 2 3/4 and 2 7/8 inch lengths to both 16- and 20-gauge offerings, and the 3 1/4 inch 12-gauge length in their "Trap" shell. By the May 1900 UMC catalogue the 3-inch 16- and 20-gauge length is being offered in their salmon colored "Smokeless" shell and their green colored "Trap" shell.

That pretty much covers paper shot shell lengths and when they appeared. So, by 1900 we had paper 12-gauge shells in 2 5/8, 2 3/4, 2 7/8, 3 and 3 1/4 inch lengths; 16-gauge shells in 2 9/16, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths; and 20-gauge shells in 2 1/2, 2 3/4, 2 7/8 and 3-inch lengths.

From the 1890s into the early 1920s, these longer shot shells didn't carry a heavier payload than one could get in a 2 3/4 inch 12-gauge shell, just more/better wadding, which many serious Pigeon shooters believed to be an advantage. The maximum smokeless powder loads offered in the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shell and the 2 1/2 inch 20-gauge shell were a bit lighter than those offered in 2 ¾ inch and longer shells. Early on, one could get smokeless powder loads as heavy as 3 1/4 drams pushing 1 1/4 ounce of shot in a 2 5/8 inch paper shell. Between 1903 and 1910 our manufacturers phased out the 1 1/4 ounce loads in the 2 5/8 inch shell. By 1910 the 2 5/8 inch paper shell was only being offered with 1 1/8 or lighter payloads, and one needed to go to the 2 3/4 inch or longer shells for 1 1/4 ounce loads.

Our U.S. manufacturers continued to offer the 2 5/8 inch 12-gauge shells until just after WW-II.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Dave Noreen

Paper Shot Shell Lengths

After the introduction of smokeless powder loads the first catalogue I’ve found to offer longer paper shells is 1895 where they offer 10-gauge shells in 2 5/8 and 2 7/8 inch lengths,

I wonder where all the 10 gauge guns are with 2 1/2" and 2 3/4" chambers for 2 5/8" and 2 7/8" shells?

[Sam Hershfield]

Thanks guys, I appreciate all the input, but I have to say I'm a little confused with the differing opinions offered to my original post.

So, is there a definitive answer to:

1. Were the 1891 12 ga. Damascus Parker GH's shipped with a 2 1/2, 2 5/8 or 2 3/4 inch chamber?

2. I've just ordered RST 12 Ga. • 2 1/2" • MaxiLite • Vel. 1125 • 1 oz. Load #9 shot. Is that the proper load for my 123 year old GH? I called RST and they said it was.

3. Was it normal to ship Full/Full chokes in a GH?

Thanks again for all your knowledge.

Sam

[charlie cleveland]

would love to run up on some of those odd lentgh shell s such as the 3 inch 16 ga and the 12 ga 3 1/4 inch...i have a umc 8 ga in brass hull thats 3 1/2 3 1/4 and 3 inch need a 4 inch 8 ga and did see a gun marked 4 1/2 inch chamber...charlie

[Researcher]

1. Hard to say without additional information.

2. While no one can tell you over the internet what ammunition may or may not be safe in a given gun, those RSTs should be great in a sound example. I'd certainly shoot them in my 1889 vintage heavy 2-frame GH-Grade.

3. Yes.

[Researcher]

I just grabbed up a variety of modern nominally 2 3/4 inch fired plastic hulls from my supplies. Winchester compression formed AA 12- and 28-gauge and a 12-gauge Super-X Pheasant, Remington Premier STS 12- and 28-gauge and 12-gauge Remington Express, and a 20-gauge Active all measure between 2 5/8 and 2 11/16 long. The only hull I picked that came near 2 3/4 inch was a Western Xpert Mark 5 16-gauge and it was still abour 3/64 shy. A 2 1/2 inch compression formed AA .410-bore shell was an honest 2 1/2 inch.

Just grabbed some fired old paper cases that have been sitting on my bookcase. The 20-gauge Peters High Velocity, the 20-gauge Remington Nitro Express, the 20-gauge Federal and the 28-gauge Western Super-X are all 2 21/32" long.

I measured all these shells sitting upright on a flat surface with a machinist's scale.