Early 28 Gauge Production

[Pa SxS]

The problem isn't with the order book copies, it's with the stock book copies. They were copied on a Xerox copier that was 17" long. The stock books were at least 20" long so information on the right hand side of the ledger wasn't able to be copied. That plus the fact that sometimes the copier lid wasn't all the way down allowing light into the copier resulting in a dark unreadable copy on some Xerox copies.

I photographed all are paper copies with a digital camera so I don't use hard copies anymore. I can zoom in with incredible detail. All this could be resolved with a digital camera. Getting back in is the problem.

[Bill Murphy]

Actually, it wasn't the PGCA Research Committee who did not list some of the lower grades for the Serialization Book. The authors of The Parker Story, probably Commander Gunther, chose not to list the lower grades. It is my opinion that he just didn't have the time.

[Dean Romig]

Time... or possibly a lack of interest in recording any gun below Grade 3...?





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[Bill Murphy]

That could be the case. Commander Gunther is no longer with us, nor is Charlie Price. Bill Mullins could give us his opinion.

[Dean Romig]

From what I understand, and this is subject to correction, Cdr. Gunther spent the most time with transcribing and contracting keypunch personnel on what data went into the Serialization book. Is this correct? He is the one who made notations in red in the books he was examining.





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[Bill Murphy]

As I understand it, Commander Gunther copied the stock books single handed. I don't know about the red marks, never saw them. I was having lunch with Commander Gunther when he invited us to the parking lot at the Arms, and presented us with the stock book copies. No big discussion, just did it. What a guy.

[Jean Swanson]

I am not getting into the negotiations with the authors & the PGCA, that is a topic by itself. Bill is correct, in that Roy Gunther copied the STOCK books, basically, by himself, he also scanned the ORDER books for guns of a grade GREATER than D's and copied that info by hand; therefore, ignoring grades less than grade 3. A group of PGCA members obtained permission from then plant manager, Sam Renzey(sp) to enter Remington Arms in Ilion to copy the order books & IBM cards.
So, when the authors obtained permission from Remington to have the Parker Gun Identification & Serialization book published by Fjestad, the data base info that had been gathered by Gunther was used as a base for the publication.

That is why the LOWER grade guns (that are in the Fjestad book) of less than grade 3, from the ORDER books are missing .

I hope this finally answers the question !!!!

Allan



ially answers the question

[Bill Mullins]

What Bill and Allan said is correct. To add to that…
A bit of background…. When Cdr. Gunther copied the Order Books ( one at a time as Remington only allowed one book to be taken out of fear of being lost) he copied only grade 3 and above guns as the TPS authors assumed collectors were primarily interested in the higher grades. Parker did not record their guns by grade but by dollar amount.
For example:
D grade guns were $100 guns
C grade guns were $150 guns
B grade guns were $200 guns
A grade guns were $300 guns
AA grade guns were $400 guns
A1 Special guns were $500 or above guns

Occasionally when sales or the economy were slow Parker would lower the price of the guns to motivate potential buyers. For example a customer might be able to buy an A1S for $400.

When Gunther went through the Order Books he always “assumed” for example a $400 gun was an AA gun and etc.
The Order Books were kept only up to 1920. Thereafter gun records were maintained on IBM cards. These cards recorded the grade, serial number, gauge,
date of manufacture and to whom shipped…. which usually was the wholesaler or retailer.

As with the Stock and Order books several IBM cards were missing and or damaged beyond legibility.

When the late Charlie Price built a data base he statistically accounted for the missing records and guns and added accordingly based upon the books that were available.

Hope this helps and might clear up some confusion.

Bill 🇺🇸

[Bill Mullins]

PS…. Cdr. Gunther drove from Averill Park NY to Illion NY every day for one month to copy the records. He would copy all day and actually “burned” up one of Remington’s copy machines! They instructed him to bring his own copier in the future. Ron Kirby, then Executive Director of the PGCA had a son who sold copying machines and gracefully supplied one for the remaining coping necessary!
👍🤗

[Jean Swanson]

Bill

Thanks for the DETAILED data of the transaction, I did not want go into the details. I knew you would & thanks

Allan