Vintage shotshells

[charlie cleveland]

those shells are very collitable...not rare stuff but good ones to start with...charlie

[Cold Spring]

I keep reading cautions about firing hotter loads in older SxS's (made for such loads) that have old, dry stocks. And while I understand that old wood has a slightly lesser moisture content than newer wood, the age certainly hasn't deteriorated the lignin = "glue" that holds the cellulose fibers together. Can someone please explain the scientific/technical considerations whereby old dry wood is allegedly more prone to setback or cracking from recoil? I personally haven't seen that while shooting boxlock guns that have properly tightened screws and are not oil soaked and already showing setback, nor those with stocks that haven't already been cracked from falls and other similar mishaps. Thank you.

[David Hamilton]

One reason that dry stocks are prone to cracking is that the wood shrinks as it dries and is therefore already under stress around the receiver before one even fires a shell. David

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

The old stock caution may be attributed to stocks that are oil soaked.

[Kensal Rise]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

I keep reading cautions about firing hotter loads in older SxS's (made for such loads) that have old, dry stocks. ... I personally haven't seen that while shooting boxlock guns that have properly tightened screws and are not oil soaked and already showing setback, nor those with stocks that haven't already been cracked from falls and other similar mishaps. Thank you.

While the experience and knowledge of others are certainly their own, and as valid as mine, I can only offer what I've encountered in stripping down a great many boxlocks, and no small number of Parkers:

Old American double guns, stocked with black walnut are almost always split inside. Apparent cause: age, dry wood and recoil forces.

American guns stocked with English walnut are less prone to splitting. Reason: Hardshell walnut retains a measure of resiliency longer. But it can still spit if it's old, dry and pounded by heavy loads.

Oil soak in the stock head makes the wood punky and soft. Whether this quality promotes or lessens splits I can't say. But I've seen a lot of oil soaked stocks with splits.

All of this is why I limit target loads to 3/4 oz and field loads to 1 oz in these old doubles.

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

I keep reading cautions about firing hotter loads in older SxS's (made for such loads) that have old, dry stocks. And while I understand that old wood has a slightly lesser moisture content than newer wood, the age certainly hasn't deteriorated the lignin = "glue" that holds the cellulose fibers together. Can someone please explain the scientific/technical considerations whereby old dry wood is allegedly more prone to setback or cracking from recoil? I personally haven't seen that while shooting boxlock guns that have properly tightened screws and are not oil soaked and already showing setback, nor those with stocks that haven't already been cracked from falls and other similar mishaps. Thank you.

Exactly. I view this caution as another of those old wives tales that upon repetition takes on a life of its own and becomes truth without considering its basis. There have been thoughtful posts here saying what Frank just said again but they seem to be quickly forgotten. For me, if the stock is not pulled away, not cracked, not oil soaked and soft, the head is tight against the frame, there is no basis why the gun cannot be used to its service loads. Stock cracks, if present, can be usually easily repaired . Of course a person can always choose to use lesser loads for less shoulder recoil, preservation of ammunition components, general sense of easier on the gun, matching the load to the game, etc. Thanks for a thoughtful post, Frank.

[MarketHunter]

Those Super X loads are my favorite vintage shells to shoot, along with the later Mark 5 shells in the same loadings. I've got a bunch on stash but am always buying more, don't ask me why. At this point I've got more than I could ever shoot in a lifetime I'm guessing......

DLH

[Richard Flanders]

I agree Destry; the Mark V's are the best shotshell ever made and these paper equivalents are a favorite also. For smell I like the ribbed green Remingtons, which seem to pleasingly scatter a fair amount of aromatic paper wadding about the shooting grounds.

As for heavy loads, I tailor my loads to the gun. I have a #1- framed 12ga with a wispy fragile looking wrist that preferably gets 24gram handloads of very low pressure. With 26" cyl bbls why would anyone put a load like these through it unless they were out to vaporize birds?? I have a couple of stout 2-frame guns with wrists like a fresh Louisville slugger with no incipient tang cracks that get these heavy loads with no worries. I never put these loads through any of my 1-1/2-framed guns, which is most all of my 12ga guns. Not just for the guns sake either; these loads really whack you with recoil in a lighter gun.

Regarding the stock shrinkage issue, wood shrinks primarily, but not only, perpendicular to the grain, meaning that a properly grained gun stock, one with nice horizontal grain that goes through the grip, will mostly shrink vertically. If you cut a slab off the end of a round log and leave it to dry it will lose more diameter than anything else but it will also always split from the center to the edge somewhere, and wood continues to dry for a very long time. My log house is still shrinking after 22 years of wood heat - 1/4" per vertical foot is the rule. My walls get shorter every year and I hear an occasional 'pop' as some log cracks a bit. This is white spruce mind you so the initial moisture content is relatively high, but the concept holds for any type of wood. So, these vintage gun stocks do shrink some horizontally which, as David H says, imparts stress(tension) on the wood as the receiver and tang hold it from shrinking like it wants to. The obvious place for a crack to start is at the back of the tang which is precisely what happens. When you repair an incipient tang crack it makes sense to relieve some wood when you put the stock back on if necessary. I glued up a significant tang crack once and clamped it. When I tried to slide the stock back on it was tighter than when I took it off and needed a bit of wood very carefully relieved.

[MarketHunter]

Richard if you ever get back down here be sure and remind me to give you a box of these 2 7/8 10 gauge Mark 5 shells I have.

DLH

[Richard Flanders]

I'll definitely take you up on that one Destry...!