What do I have? - Page 15

Opening Day · 03-27-2011, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dee Durham

My visit with Mr Chadick is done. He said it definitely is a rare Parker (C grade with O frame). But will require a LOT of time to restore it...

What did he say needed to be done? This may be a second opinion idea.

Old and Reliable · 03-27-2011, 08:06 PM

Old bit of Chinese wisdom- if you want to know the true value of something you own, get the opinion of three non-related men who have no interest in buying it. Mr. Chaddick is a very well established gun dealer in Terrel, TX and has a good reputation, as does Jack Puglisi, Steven Cobb and other too numerous to mention here. However, I would also discuss this situation with Jess Brliley and also with Danny Clark of Collectors Firearms- both are in the Houston area. Mr. Chaddick is 100% correct in that the CH(E) guns are scarce, and the smaller sized frames and gauges may well be one reason for the value of your family Parker. The DH(E) or grade 3 numerically was not all that much different in engraving or stock checkering than the more costly CH(E), and was a bit like the fabled "red-headed stepchild" between the very popular DH(E) and the grade 5 BHE Parker, so there were not all that many manufactured. The late Ed Muderlak points this out in his book on the Parker- The Old Reliable and has some fine details about his visits and chats with Herschel Chaddick in past years. If you haven't yet read his writings, you might like to do so. And you are 100% correct about Bruce Day- if he makes a recommendation to you about guns and gunning, his advice is as solid as the Rock of Gibraltar!

DeAn Durham · 03-27-2011, 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eric Eis

What did he say needed to be done? This may be a second opinion idea.

Said all of the etching needed to be redone, stock replaced, and barrels had pitting but is salvageable.

George Lander · 03-27-2011, 10:13 PM

Dee: You have some excellant advice from Francis, Robert, Bruce & Others. I know Herschel and he is a gun dealer of integrity but not a gunsmith. I would show your gun to three qualified Parker smiths and get their full evaluation as to cost and results. Three who do not "have a horse in the race". You have a gun that is well worth restoration and for the money spent the monetary value would enhanced several fold. If folks on this forum are willing to chip in & help, your "better angels" should prompt you to accept. Once a restorer is selected and a price established any of us could send our contributions directly to him. There is nothing demeaning by accepting a little help from your friends,

IMHO Best Regards, George

DeAn Durham · 03-28-2011, 08:16 AM

Ok, Here is the contents of my research letter:

"It was ordered by J. M. Parisot in Palmetto Home, MS on April 8, 1904 and shipped on July 27, 1904. According to Parker Bros. Order Book No. 62 it was a CHE hammerless, 16-gauge. It featured Titanic steel barrels with a length of 28 inches. Its stock configuration was a capped pistol grip. The chokes were patterned RH full (185 # 7 pellets in a 30” circle at 40 yards) and LH full (185 # 7 pellets in a 30” circle at 40 yards). According to Parker Bros. Stock Book No. 45, its specifications were: Length of Pull: 14”, Drop at Heel: 3 ¼”, Weight: 6 pounds and 10 ounces. The price was $150.00 plus $25.00 for ejectors.

According to Order Book No. 63, the gun was returned on August 19, 1904 by J. M. Parisot to repair ext rib and frame. There was no charge."

I wanted to again say thank you to everyone here for their advice and knowledge. I believe I am just going to keep this old Parker and display it proudly. The restoration will have to come later down the road when I can budget in a cost of that magnitude. I am forever grateful to each and every one of you for all that you've done. You may not think you've done much of anything but give advice, but you've done more than you know.

Old and Reliable · 03-28-2011, 08:37 AM

I'll 'go out on a limb" here and state that the other PGCA members who responded to your thread here also appreciate your sharing the details of the history of your CHE 16 bore. I am also sure your Granddad (deceased) would be pleased that you are going to keep it as a family heirloom and keepsake.

I had a 16 gauge PH on the O frame with 26" uncut Twist barrels (grade 2) also made in about 1905 and I had it lettered. I am not a smaller gauge gunner, when I sold it having the letter authenticating it and the original factory barrel length was a plus in the sale transaction. I had shot it with the 2.5" RST 7/8 oz. loads, if I lived where there was both quail and dove hunting I would have kept it.

Your barrels being both full choke- not all that uncommon back in that era. Unless a specific pattern with a load was specified by the purchaser, Parker, L.C. Smith, possibly AH Fox- all tended to bore their barrels for full choke. This, in retrospect, IMO anyway, was a smart move, as later the owner could return the gun to the factory and have the chokes opened.
Unfortunately, there were some upland bird hunters with those fine older tighter choked Parkers who took a hacksaw to the muzzle area, in a mis-guided effort to provide more open shot patterns.

Again, IMO- if I were the fortunate owner of this CHE, I would have it restored (my choice is my friend Brad Bachelder in MI -about 25 miles from where I live)- I might have him open the choke on the right barrel, but leave the left one at full. I am 70 and not so "quick on the draw" and having a tighter patterning second barrel often stops a cripple or drops a wild flushing bird (if in fair range). The late Ray P. Holland had most of his upland double guns choked imp. cyl. right and full left.

Today's specialty shotshells (RST, Poly-Wad, Fiocchi, New Era, Hevi-Shot) have been a great bonus for those of us who treasure our days afield with a older fine vintage double, such as your CHE 16. Best wishes!!

Bruce Day · 03-28-2011, 09:04 AM

If folks would review the posts, they will see that I recommended Hershel Chaddick to look the gun over, because he has sound judgment about how to make a Parker look good, and his retired gunsmith Tom Chapman to do the work if Hershel could convince Tom to take the project on. I don't think there was anybody better than Tom, although there were some as good, but not many. I know there are guns out there today that are believed original yet were redone by Tom. Hershel and Tom are close to Dee and that was an important consideration. Hershel is himself mostly retired, but still buys and sells a few guns, and people still call him with requests for certain guns.

There is no doubt that this gun is in, to put it mildly, terrible condition. Yet, Dee says that Hershel says it is salvageable, and I would bank on that. "Bank" is the operable word, because its restoration will be long and costly to do right rather than cobble something together. If Dee does not have the money and interest, this may be a good gun to sell to someone who does, and who will probably be upside down in the gun by the time they are finished.

Robert Delk · 03-28-2011, 09:29 AM

Yeah, it 's in bad shape but we've all seen them brought back to useful life from dead.I would be of the mind that the gun should be "stablized" as soon as possible and if Ms.Durham would agree maybe this gun would be a good group project for the PGCA to take on. Document the restoration on video with narration to show what can be done by skilled and sympathetic restoration.Would make a good tutorial for the groups meetings.

Robert Delk · 03-28-2011, 09:57 AM

Not to put to fine a point to it,but we're all familiar with an artifact ,be it an old car,antique furniture or whatever,in the hands of someone that is unable to conserve it quickly and fate steps in and the artifact is lost through circumstances beyond anyone's control. I speak from bitter experience and the time to act is always "Right Now!" Money is almost always the issue in these things as restoration is expensive and in this case ,as Bruce said,the expense will be more than the gun is worth at the present time.Take the long view that 20-50 years down the road someone will thank you for taking the plunge.

DeAn Durham · 03-28-2011, 10:21 AM

Althought the cost is too great for myself at this point in my life, I am not looking to sell it nor restore it to make money or a quick payday. Now, before my mother passed and I had mounting bills trying to help her with her hospital care then ultimately her funeral costs, I did in fact consider selling it because to me taking care of her was of most importance before anything. Somehow by God's grace I was able to pull myself together and take care of everything without having to go that route. I have the mindset that it is what it is and if/when I have the means and resources to restore it, I will but until then it will stay in my safe away from the elements and in worst case of never restoring it, I will display it proudly in my home and brag to my girls it's family history.

I value Mr. Chadick's opinion and am very well aware of his capabilities as well as that of his gunsmith Mr. Chapman. I, again, am grateful for the advice Mr. Chadick gave me, the conversation, and the quick history lesson on my Parker. He was very informative, and by all accounts a true gentleman. Thank you Bruce for your recommendation to him.

Please know, I am just happy that along this journey, I am glad to just have this adventure before me, grateful to the MANY new friends I have here, and am just all around blessed by everyone looking out for me here. I will take each step through this process gracefully and carefully. Who knows, one day I might be taking a picture of myself with this old Parker looking as beautiful as ever....only time will tell.

All in all...........I'm truly blessed by all of you, please know that