2 7/8" 10ga Reloading Data

[OH Osthaus]

no one can tell you what is safe for damascus barrels - condition is everything and will vary. the British proof houses will proof them with modern loads if they pass the preliminary inspection

really - it's not much different than antique fluid steel barrels - how much pitting, have they been honed -

those of us that shoot them do so at our own risk, based on judging the measurements and condition- and our perceived level of self knowledge

[Cory Rams]

They have not been honed and there is some pitting. Thanks for the reply. I guess the question I should’ve asked is what is the load pressure rating for Damascus 10 gauge barrels.

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Cory Rams

There was zero sarcasm meant by my post. I was honestly excited to see all the load data! As for PSI....I meant pressure. I see 6,000 to 10,000 pressures listed( I called it PSI). I was asking if all of these listed loads were safe for Damascus barrels. I cannot find any load books listing Damascus load pressures. From other readings I was under the impression that 6000 was the max load pressure in Damascus 10 gauge barrels. I’ve been reloading and casting for over 20 years but have never loaded shotgun shells.

Has your gun been evaluated by a competent to do so gunsmith who deemed it is safe to shoot? What is the chamber length, are you certain it is 2 7/8"? The heaviest 10ga load available at the time your gun was built was most likely 1 1/4 ounce of lead with a velocity around 1150 fps.

The spreadsheet lists all the published and tested 2 7/8" 10ga loadings I could find and their sources noted. No I do not consider all of them safe to shoot in composite barrel guns. There were 10ga double guns produced with fluid steel barrels, notably the Ithaca NID Super Ten that was designed to shoot the heaviest of 2 7/8" 10ga loadings. What a Super Ten will handle and what your gun will handle are different.

Working up the heaviest loading you can find for a near 150 year old gun is unwise and potentially dangerous IMO. A 1 1/4 ounce loading at 1150 fps out of a 10ga will take down any bird provided the choke and shot size are correct and the range is inside 40 yards. Good luck.

[Dean Romig]

I find myself wondering why anyone would actually want to shoot maximum pressure loads in a nice old gun like this, be it a Damascus barreled gun or fluid pressed steel. The wood, especially in the wrist of the stock, is especially vulnerable due to its age and the effects of various external oils and solvents that may have been applied. I certainly wouldn’t subject any of my Parkers to maximum loads, whatever they might be. There is absolutely no sound reason to do so. Heck, every longbeard I have ever killed have been dropped dead with one shot of very reasonable loads of far less than 8,000 p.s.i.





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[Woodcock survey]

Originally Posted by Cory Rams

They have not been honed and there is some pitting. Thanks for the reply. I guess the question I should’ve asked is what is the load pressure rating for Damascus 10 gauge barrels.

No one knows what the load pressure rating for your particular barrels are. That is impossible to know in that you say there is pitting present without knowing the depth and to what extent it effects barrel wall thickness which is the first thing you should find out. BWT is covered in many threads by very knowledgeable people on this forum. Dr. Drew is a wealth of knowledge on Damascus barrels and i suggest you read his web site and familiarize yourself with the current thinking.

You state that the barrels have not been honed but the only way to tell if you have enough wall thickness is to measure them and then proceed with period appropriate shells.

It is in your hands to assure the safety of your gun and no one will take on that responsibility for you.

[Woodcock survey]

Measuring barrel wall is also covered in many threads available using the search function. There is a long learning curve before you can arrive at a conclusion.

[Cory Rams]

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

Has your gun been evaluated by a competent to do so gunsmith who deemed it is safe to shoot? What is the chamber length, are you certain it is 2 7/8"? The heaviest 10ga load available at the time your gun was built was most likely 1 1/4 ounce of lead with a velocity around 1150 fps.

The spreadsheet lists all the published and tested 2 7/8" 10ga loadings I could find and their sources noted. No I do not consider all of them safe to shoot in composite barrel guns. There were 10ga double guns produced with fluid steel barrels, notably the Ithaca NID Super Ten that was designed to shoot the heaviest of 2 7/8" 10ga loadings. What a Super Ten will handle and what your gun will handle are different.

Working up the heaviest loading you can find for a near 150 year old gun is unwise and potentially dangerous IMO. A 1 1/4 ounce loading at 1150 fps out of a 10ga will take down any bird provided the choke and shot size are correct and the range is inside 40 yards. Good luck.

When I first bought this 1873 Charles Daly from a garage sale back in the 90’s for $45. I took it to a gunsmith who measured the chambers at 2 7/8” and was told it was a 10 gauge. I was pretty excited since I currently owned 3 browning gold 10 gauges at the time. Through the years one of my best friends went to a Colorado gunsmith school after working for an old school smith during his high school years. He ended up opening his own shop 15 years ago. I had him install hammers from Dixie gun works and inspect the gun over and deemed it safe to shoot. I searched for the original hammers for a good 20 plus years with zero luck. I sent a tracing of the existing hammer with measurements to one the Dixie gun works gunsmiths who matched it up with the closet ones they had. After the hammers were installed my gunsmith buddy and I test fired it with #5, 2 7/8” RST shells. It’s shoots beautiful. I put 17 pellets in a turkey head and neck target at 20 yards. I was just hoping for a tighter group. I did buy some #6, 1 1/4oz RST ammo to try but haven’t had a chance to shoot it yet. I figured it would be more economical to reload since I have a good 5 pounds of black powder and and 8 pounds each of 700x, green dot, and red dot. Imo it’s more rewarding to harvest game with ammo I loaded. I appreciate the helpful info. If 1/1/4 oz loads at 1150 FPS is what factory loads were a 150 years ago then imo is what the gun should be firing. That was the reason in my original question I asked for the heaviest safe load as I do not want to damage my gun. It’s been a long journey to get it up and running. I just removed the century and a half of barrel surface rust a few weeks ago and refinished the barrels with a coat of Oxpho bluing. I then removed the bluing accept for where it highlights the Damascus pattering. I also refinished the wood furniture in the last week refinishing it with boiled Lind seed oil. When I bought it the action was rusted shut. It’s come along ways. My goal was always to restore the rusty gun with one one missing hammer into a shooter and harvest a turkey with it which I will be trying to do here in a month and a half. I figured I’d try to load up some tighter grouping ammo vs the RST’s I tried in it. If not I’m sure the #6’s RST’s will probably group tighter than the RST #5’s.





It’s still far from perfect but looks a million times better then when I first bought it IMO.

[Cory Rams]

I have been looking for more load data. I have a 2 7/8” lee loader coming. The load card has a few loads on all the data posted here...or I didn’t see listed with a federal case. The loads are 1 5/8oz lead with 30 grains of red dot and a few other powders. No pressures listed with the loads. Anyone have a pressure listing with the red dot load? The reason I ask is I have red dot powder. The lee load table card shows both plastic and paper over shot wads listed with seating pressures. I thought these loaders were made before plastic wads were around? Guess not.




I also found a guy on YouTube with a track of the wolf load consisting of 116 grains of FG and 1 5/8oz of lead. I will have to order the track of the wolf load data book and a few brass 2 7/8” 10 gauge shells. I would assume the 116 grain Slower burning FG will be less pressure than the 130 grains of fffg both with 1 5/8oz of lead? Should make a great turkey load I would think. It will be fun to see some smoke roll out of barrels.

Here is the video of the guy shooting the 116 grain track of the wolf load.

https://youtu.be/UhgZXoGdzHQ

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Cory Rams

I have been looking for more load data. I have a 2 7/8” lee loader coming. The load card has a few loads on all the data posted here...or I didn’t see listed with a federal case. The loads are 1 5/8oz lead with 30 grains of red dot and a few other powders. No pressures listed with the loads. Anyone have a pressure listing with the red dot load? The reason I ask is I have red dot powder. The lee load table card shows both plastic and paper over shot wads listed with seating pressures. I thought these loaders were made before plastic wads were around? Guess not.

I would consider thirty grains of Red Dot with any lead load including 1 1/8 ounce to be dangerous. I would never shoot that much Red Dot in any short ten loading. Those loadings would likely hurt your gun and potentially cause you physical harm. I believe that Red Dot was reformulated since those loadings were published. You would be better off to start with light loadings like 19 gr. of Red Dot with 1 1/8 ounce of lead shot and enjoy your gun. Please stop trying to make a 150 year old hammer gun something it is not and was never meant to be with your ideas of heavy loads. I am concerned it won't end well for you.

[Cory Rams]

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

I would consider thirty grains of Red Dot with any lead load including 1 1/8 ounce to be dangerous. I would never shoot that much Red Dot in any short ten loading. Those loadings would likely hurt your gun and potentially cause you physical harm. I believe that Red Dot was reformulated since those loadings were published. You would be better off to start with light loadings like 19 gr. of Red Dot with 1 1/8 ounce of lead shot and enjoy your gun. Please stop trying to make a 150 year old hammer gun something it is not and was never meant to be with your ideas of heavy loads. I am concerned it won't end well for you.

Thanks for the heads up. Thirty grains of red dot didn’t make sense to me as the few red dot loads I see listed are 17 to 19 grains. I Messaged you instead of asking questions so I don’t end up derailing this post.