Doozy of a query!

[Sean Harper]

Originally Posted by Richard Flanders

Is the bottom release lever still frozen or can you push it in?

Richard, the release lever figits just a bit. I push on it, and it will stick inside just a bit, then I have to pull it out. It has roughly a quarter of an inch of play before it sticks. In other words; it has some play but I suspect it is not going all the way inside that it can. I have really only just played with it a bit, just giving the penetrating oil time to digest. I have been loath to set the gun upright and use two hands to break it. At this point I've only had it upside down on the table while dispensing oil on the bottom letting it soak in that direction. I always make sure the oil coats the breach, all hinge points and the release lever. I'm of the mind to wait as long as needed. Thinking to myself that one day it will all magically fall into a beautiful parts-pile. Although if you and others are of the mind that it would be safe to be a bit more foreward with it, I suppose I can tinker just a bit more.

I just took more photo's of recent progress, they will be uploaded soon.

Sean

[Bill Murphy]

Apparently the button linkage is free but the bolt is probably stuck somewhere, probably in the barrel lug slot. If it were my gun, I would run the button in as far as it will go, somehow hold it in place, and tap the button with a plastic or nylon hammer in an attempt to break the rust bond. I wouldn't tap too hard, but then it's not my gun.

[Sean Harper]

Bill you smart fella, I just happened to test a very small plastic mallet on the lifter button. Just gently mind you. You were spot on. The lifter sank further than it had and the barrels came loose. Now comes slowly working out the screws and guts. Wish me luck.

There is a bit of a snag though folks. I simply cannot discern the grade. I'm looking for the applicable letter on the watertable but alas to no avail. I only see two things on the entire watertable: the serial number, and the pattent date (Mar. 16. 1875). The Parker website has the watertable as the spot to find the grade. Where is it? Can it be determined using other methods?

Further, I have been able to find the weight of the barrels (4 and then 14 just above the first 4). And, the frame size is listed as 02. What does this tell me?

Also, there is a very small set of letters on the latch that catches the barrels as it is set to fire (tiny letters just opposite the digits for frame size). They are quite small but they apear to read: J.S. Any ideas?

There is also more letters I need some direction on. Two T's encircled. TT. Also, there is a letter F just beyond the TT. Further; there is a very small P that is framed with a diamond shape. This is stamped just above and to the left of the extractor tip, located on the underside of the right side barrel. What do these mean?

I have included more links to pictures I have taken, I'm getting better at taking them. I still have not found any issues with the gun other than rust. I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop, but it hasn't yet. Now looking at the barrels and fore end and hinges; everything looks like just a rusty gun.

Thank you all again for your wisdom! Any information you can give me would be greatly appreciated!

Sean

http://yfrog.com/jncimg4422j
http://yfrog.com/0mcimg4421j
http://yfrog.com/0mcimg4419tj
http://yfrog.com/jlcimg4418j
http://yfrog.com/jncimg4417j
http://yfrog.com/jlcimg4415j

[Charlie Price]

Sean: Welcome to the club, you'll soon be a Parker restoration expert. Your serial 19698 is found in the Parker records as a 10 gauge, capped pistol grip, with 30" PT (Plain Twist) barrels, quality 0 (zero). (That is the least expensive grade.) It is one of six identical guns, serials 19696 thru 19701. I think this means that it was made in a batch of guns for inventory or for some big distributor's order -- as opposed to being specially made for an individual. A PGCA research letter should tell who bought it. Hope you can get the gun restored to your satisfaction. Charlie Price

[Dean Romig]

the 4 14 indicates the unstruck barrel weight of 4 lbs., 14 oz.

The JS is the barrel maker's stamp for Jonathan (or John) Stokes.

The small P in the diamond may be an indication of barrels made by Parker Bros. rather than the customary imported barrels.

A Parker lifter with Twist or Plain Twist barrels is usually a grade 0 or a grade 1.

[David Hamilton]

Your gun is not a "0" grade. There is no engraving on a "0". Yours is a higher grade. David

[Sean Harper]

What an incredible experience! Well folks, with your help I have dismantled my 1880 Lifter 10 gauge and now the stock and fore end are raw wood. It is amazing to me that at the beginning of this thread I had assumed the restoration of my parker was beyond me. I could not have done this alone mind you. A big thanks goes to Richard especially who walked me through my first exposure to side locks and the internals of this gun.

I have many more questions and am in need of further assistance. But I will be opening up a new thread in the restorations forum. Questions like weather or not to remove the sheild as I refinish the stock, should I refinish and re-tool the checkering (I'm a woodworker by trade, so I'm confident in my skills). These questions and others will come up in the new thread. Especially David's notion that the gun may not be a grade 0, in fact being a possible higher grade.

Again, thank you to everyone that has helped! I couldn't have done this without you.


new thread:http://parkerguns.org/forums/showthr...=9213#post9213

[John McKee]

I'm fascinated by the whole experience you've had.

I've got to ask though: In antique furniture; refinishing is now a bad word. Unless the furniture is completely missing it's original finish. In your case; I'm assuming that some finish is there, underneath the mold and grime.

Do you refinish or not? And what criteria is used to decide. In furniture; a really good piece of furniture is worth more in a un-refinished, original state. I'd assume if there's some patina to this old gunstock; it should be cleaned and oiled? I don't know. But I'd love to hear from the guys here on that. And obviously has been a topic before:

Originally Posted by Brad Bachelder

William, that is a question that I get asked on a daily basis.My company restores 75 to 100 firearms yearly. We decline requested work on many,many more. The following is the criteria we use in restoration. Is the gun a classic or collector grade gun ? Is it a family heirloom? Is it unique or rare in some way?. If a gun is mechanicaly sound wood and metal and retains at least 40% of its original patina, we suggest only a professional cleaning and inspection.
A large percentage of classic doubles that we see, have been poorly refinished, restocked, reblued or tampered with. In that case we determine if it can be restored to its original condition. Restoration work is vastly different than refinishing. Restoration requires a great deal of research and an understanding of original finishing techniques used at the time of manufacture. If a restored gun looks refinished It is not done correctly. Oil soaked wood, bare or rusted metal, lead to larger problems of not attended to.
If your double looks good, is original and sound, shoot and enjoy it. If not have it properly restored it will certianly look pretty and ensure another 100 years of service.
Brad

[Sean Harper]

Originally Posted by John McKee

I'm fascinated by the whole experience you've had.

I've got to ask though: In antique furniture; refinishing is now a bad word. Unless the furniture is completely missing it's original finish. In your case; I'm assuming that some finish is there, underneath the mold and grime.

Do you refinish or not? And what criteria is used to decide. In furniture; a really good piece of furniture is worth more in a un-refinished, original state. I'd assume if there's some patina to this old gunstock; it should be cleaned and oiled? I don't know. But I'd love to hear from the guys here on that. And obviously has been a topic before:

John, when I refinish an old piece for a customer I always go by the following criteria: Is the goal of the owner to refinish for resale. Is the owner treating it as an heirloom for their estate. Just those two choices, simple. If they are putting the piece up for auction then I will treat it with delicate hands. Usually this means I simply clean the piece thuroughly with a low-grade de-greaser and repair the hardware (if it has hardware) and repair any damage to the wood. If the piece is not going to be sold and the owner simply wants the item to last another couple hundred years, then my options open up. I have done everything from completely resanding the piece down a thirty-second of an inch all around and applying a strong varnish (in the case of a birdseye maple endtable where the owner wanted to see the pocks clearly); to very simply stripping the piece and applying a new surface agent.

So, delicacy and education is needed if the piece has re-sale value and/or historical significance. But really most folks I meet just want their old family treasure to be safe for years to come.

In the case of my gun, I've never done a gunstock before. Having said that, it is clear to me what my options are with the wood. I've worked on wood of the same era so I'm very familiar with the process. What is NOT clear to me is what my heart is telling me. This will be the key to this project. My heart will dictate how far I go. I will not be selling the gun, and it does not have significant historical value. So, I know that the gun is special only to me. I am my own customer. My heart wants desperately to strip it down completely to let the wood show more dramatically. But I have held off here. I may feel that I will clean it as best I can and then put a mild preservative and light finish on it. I'm leaning toward deep cleaning with a light finish or even just a simple cleaning then waxing.

What I do know for sure, is that the stock in two places has a hair-line crack. Only about an inch long. Those need attention. Also, I want the gun to be safe to fire. So no matter what I do to the body of the stock, I will be treating the area where the hinge mounts to the stock with a wood hardener. I use an excellent product that is safe for any wood. I'll be using it in the crevises of the stock where the side plates meet the wood and especially the fore end grip, that part is pretty thin and slightly punky in parts.

So I suppose in this case I am driven by my heart and love of the item. I don't really care if my work on the stock is true to some arbitrary law dictating what it "should" be. Though I know for a fact that the Parker-purists out there are very forgiving and really only want the gun to last as a part of American history and folklore. I'm sure anything I do to it will have their support as long as it doesn't destroy the physical action and properties of the gun and as long as the focus of my restoration is to preserve and protect.

I'll keep you very closely informed with every step I take in my other post in the restoration forum.

Thank you for your interest!
Sean