Barrel wall thickness

[Bill Murphy]

Buy a Manson gauge for a hundred bucks and measure the thing to death, John. Advertise it with the measurements you come up with and let them measure it after they send you the check. Have I told you about my friend who bought an absolutley screaming AAHE that was advertised at auction as "under safe wall dimensions" in the auction description? He bought it for about $10,000. It turned out to be an Abercrombie gun that had been ordered to weigh 6 1/2 pounds and was as right as rain. Today it is a $??? gun because of its rarity, originality, and high condition.

[J.B. Books]

John, if I were you I would do as your doing, describe the gun as completely and honestly as you have. If you believe the gun to be in original condition (no evidence or suspicion of honing or reaming) state that too. The gun is going to sell itself, it's unique and it's gorgeous. I am sure you are disappointed, but better to know now up front than have a buyer come back to you later with a potential issue to try to get some money back. I think you are in stronger position for knowing up front.

[Drew Hause]

Sherman Bell's pressure test published in The Double Gun Journal Summer 2002, "Finding Out for Myself, Part VI, Smokeless vs Black", p.19 and summarized in Volume 17: Issue 4, Winter 2006, p. 39

1 1/4 oz. 3 3/4 dram GOEX FFFg Black Powder at 1240 fps and equivalent load Blue Dot
...........................1 inch.................. 6 inches...............12 inches
BP.......................5900 psi...............4100....................2100
Blue Dot...............6000....................4300.... ...............2300

1 1/2 oz. at 1236 fps Blue Dot (weight not stated)
...........................10,000................. 4,400...................2000

[Bill Murphy]

I'm a little surprised about the 10,000 figure, but 1 1/2 ounces is not a friendly load in a 12 gauge at that velocity anyhow.

[Kevin McCormack]

Jay; Jay; Jay!!! -

Your absolutely excellent post looks like a court stenographer's transcription of the wonderful conversation that you, John Hosford and I had at the NE SxS in June! John's gauge paid for itself at about 15X MSRP in the first year I owned it. When dealers see you coming with it, they know whether to give you a little table space to set it up and measure or head for the Porta Potty across the parking lot in double time.

[Stepmac]

LOL: I know you guys are purists and love machines that measure things like barrel thickness. That's fine of course.

My method is simplier. I have several old shotguns...maybe half a dozen. I inspect dozens monthly. My method is to peer down the bore and then run my finger down the outside of the tubes. If the bore looks okay and I don't detect any bumps or ripples along the outside then I inspect the muzzles. If they don't look "spooky" thin, and the gun "talks to me", I'll make an offer.

What constitutes "spooky". Well, you've got me, but like pornorgraphy, I know it when I see it.

[AmarilloMike]

I copied this from a post I made over on the Doublegun BBS:

I sure have a lot of doubles with original chambers and forcing cones with wall thicknesses way below .100" at the end of the chamber.

Fox A grade 16ga, 26" barrels, 2-7/16" chamber, 0.085" and 0.086" minimum wall thickness at the end of the chambers, .734" and .734" diameter at the end of the chambers, 5/8" long forcing cones, #4 barrels, gun weighs 5lbs 9oz, serial 302XXX.

Parker VH O Frame 16ga, 28" steel barrels, serial 134XXX, 2-9/16" chamber, .082" and 0.085" minimum wall thickness at the end of the chambers, 0.730" and 0.732" end chamber diameters, 3lbs 2oz unstruck barrel weight, gun weighs 5lbs 14oz.

AYA #1 20 bore sidelock, factory 2-3/4" (70mm) chambers, 30" barrels, built and proofed in 2006, .092" and .091" minimum wall thickness at the end of the chambers. Skeets gauges unable to measure chamber diameter. Gun weighs 5lbs 13oz.


Fox XE 16ga, 30" barrels, serial 301xxx, .072" and .080" minimum wall at chamber ends, 2-7/16" chambers, .733" and .733" end chamber diameters, gun weighs 6lbs 3oz

Parker DHE 16ga, 32" steel barrels, serial 212XXX, 0.090" and 0.092" minimum wall thickness at chamber ends, 2-9/16" chambers, .735" and .736" diameter at chamber ends, barrel unstruck barrel weight 3lbs 11oz, gun weighs 7lbs 4oz.

Lefever H grade 16 gauge, 28" twist barrels, .090" and .092" minimum wall thickness at chamber ends, 2-5/8" chambers, .729" and .728" diameter at chamber ends. Gun weighs 6lbs 4oz

Ithaca Flues Grade 4E 16 gauge, 28" Krupp fluid steel barrels, 0.091" and 0.092" minimum wall thickness at the end of 2-5/8" chambers, daimeters of .728" and .730" at the end of the chambers, gun weighs 6lbs 6ounces.

Parker DH 12 bore, 28" Damascus barrels, 1 frame, .086" and .090" minimum wall thickness at end of the 2-5/8" chambers, gun weighs 6lbs 14oz. Serial #84XXX, My Skeets gauges are incapable of measuring the diameters at the end of the chamber.

Bissel Birmingham boxlock, 20 gauge, 25" steel barrels, made in the 1920s, .084" and .092" minimum wall thickness at the chamber ends, 2-1/2" chambers. My Skeets gauges are incapable of measuring the diameters at the end of the chamber. Weighs 5lbs 7oz.

[Holeshot]

Mike, looks like you have an interesting collection of 16's. Which is your favorite? Dave

[AmarilloMike]

Originally Posted by David Holes

Mike, looks like you have an interesting collection of 16's. Which is your favorite? Dave

David I couldn't choose one. The Parker VH 16 and the Fox A grade 16 are neck and neck for my favored Bob White gun. The stock is lower on the Parker and I shoot it a little better.

The Fox XE is a fine gun and maybe the prettiest gun I own. 30" barrels make it nice for dove.

The DHE 16 with the 32" barrels is a great dove gun. A few years ago I took it to Argentina.

I shoot the Flues very well, perhaps better than any other gun I own.

Besides the list above I also have a Parker VHE 16 O frame that weighs 5-3/4 pounds with 26" barrels that I really like. And a Birmy boxlock 16 (Gallyon) the weighs in at 5-9 with 28" barrels that was my first love in double guns.

So I guess the answer is that I don't know.


And thanks!

Mike

[Ruff Hunter]

This has been a great and informative thread. In that regard, what's the consensus on the safety shooting factor of this DH? I do note that the chamber/forcing cone minimum barrel wall thickness measurements are needed.

http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/Vie...Item=304446791