Winchester 1897 Black Diamond Trap

[Bill Zachow]

While looking at the 97s, you may get lucky and find a 1893. Predecessor to the 1897 and much scarcer. The 1893 was basically too weak in the frame to consistently handle the early smokeless powder shells. Winchester made about 20,000 before the problems became too numerous to ignore. Winchester offered to replace any 1893 with a new 1897, grade for grade. All returned 93s were destroyed making them one of the scarcest Winchester pump shotguns around. The only scarcer one would be the model 61 .22 shot. 93s and early 97s came with plain, uncheckered steelbuttplates which had a small peak.

[Stepmac]

Originally Posted by Bill Zachow

While looking at the 97s, you may get lucky and find a 1893. Predecessor to the 1897 and much scarcer. The 1893 was basically too weak in the frame to consistently handle the early smokeless powder shells. Winchester made about 20,000 before the problems became too numerous to ignore. Winchester offered to replace any 1893 with a new 1897, grade for grade. All returned 93s were destroyed making them one of the scarcest Winchester pump shotguns around. The only scarcer one would be the model 61 .22 shot. 93s and early 97s came with plain, uncheckered steelbuttplates which had a small peak.

Over the years I have seen a few 93s at gun shows and they garnered little interest. I'll bet people don't know the story just related. Some were damascus. I see more Marlins than Winchesters tho.

When young I attended local carnivals where you got ten shots at little zinc bottles for a dime. We shot those little 61's shooting shorts. Does anyone shoot 22 shorts today? We used to all of the time.

I enjoy my 97, but I haven't shot it much. It just looks great.

[Ed Blake]

Didn't Nash Buckingham shoot a '93 that was exchanged for a '97?

[charlie cleveland]

that hammer on the old 97 gives are some kinda carisma...i only have a good shooter in the old 97 my grandson barrowed it about 2 years ago and i aint seen it since...he must like it or throwed it in the creek .... charlie

[Stepmac]

Originally Posted by charlie cleveland

that hammer on the old 97 gives are some kinda carisma...i only have a good shooter in the old 97 my grandson barrowed it about 2 years ago and i aint seen it since...he must like it or throwed it in the creek .... charlie

When young lots of our guns had hammers and half cock was considered a reliable and easy to use safety. The 97 could be put on half cock and so could the early Ruger .22 revolvers and my .357 Blackhawk and yes, my ears still ring. The ubiquitous 30/30 Win and Marlin also used the half cock safety and they were about the only high powered rifles that I ever saw in Western Kansas. Some guys still used old Krags. I cannot recall, as I sit here, any rifle sporting glass, or even peep sights, but some must have.

As I peruse photos of bird hunters at the turn of the Century (19 - 20) I see lots of 97's and a few Parkers and Elsies. Other's too, of course, but the 97, in its day, was hot potatos. Hunters must have liked the extra shots and the modernity of the pumps.

[Bill Murphy]

I think that our friend, Dave Noreen, would know about Nash Buckingham's exposed hammer Winchesters. As I recall, he got a Winchester from Harold Money, but I don't know whether it was a 97 or a 93. I have my little covey of 97 Traps, but only one in extremely high condition. Kevin McCormack and I included that one in a "Competition Pigeon Guns" display at the Baltimore Antique Arms Collectors show a couple of years ago. Even though the display included some high grade Parker pigeon guns as well as other valuable pigeon guns, the old minty 97 Trap Grade drew the most questions and offers to purchase. Who knows what turns collectors on?

[Stepmac]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

I think that our friend, Dave Noreen, would know about Nash Buckingham's exposed hammer Winchesters. As I recall, he got a Winchester from Harold Money, but I don't know whether it was a 97 or a 93. I have my little covey of 97 Traps, but only one in extremely high condition. Kevin McCormack and I included that one in a "Competition Pigeon Guns" display at the Baltimore Antique Arms Collectors show a couple of years ago. Even though the display included some high grade Parker pigeon guns as well as other valuable pigeon guns, the old minty 97 Trap Grade drew the most questions and offers to purchase. Who knows what turns collectors on?

Feeling as if I should know, but who was Nash Buckingham?

[Big D]

Shooting .22 Shorts - Yes, i shoot them all the time in my Hi Standard Olympic. Best pistol I own.

[Stepmac]

Originally Posted by John Dallas

Shooting .22 Shorts - Yes, i shoot them all the time in my Hi Standard Olympic. Best pistol I own.

I shot some shorts in my Smith and Wesson K22 and from that day to this it has been difficult to chamber a LR round. I've tried everything to reem out the chambers. I even chucked a cleaning brush on a drill and ran it through the chambers at high speed...LR rounds still stick.

[Bill Zachow]

2of my favorite .22short guns are a Winchester model 1890, and a Browning semi-auto take down rifle. The Winchester is deadly on golden rod galls up to 25 yards using a Lyman peep sight. Those galls are about 3/4" in diameter. The Browning is not as accurate, due to its small size and light weight. Back to 93 pumps for a moment--a damascus 1893 would be even rarer than a model 61 shot--even rare than the pre-war 61 with the matted receiver like the model 12.