20 ga. gun weights

[Bill Murphy]

Edgar, the 1/2 frame 20 is one of the guns in the BHE four barrel, two gun set built for Centerville, Maryland NSSA shooter, Cliff Green. A 16 gauge 1/2 frame gun can easily be built with a set of #1 frame 16 gauge barrels like the DHE 1/2 frame that I own. In my opinion, the factory probably built more than one of those. The 000 frame 28 gauge was owned by a neighbor of mine, now passed, and I have no idea where it is today. He displayed it at a PGCA annual meeting and show at Ohio Gun Collectors some years ago. I measured the frame and it is a true 000 frame gun. Is that sweet or what?

[Stan Hillis]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Some time back, I initiated a thread where I added some frame sizes that the authors were not aware of. The sizes mentioned in this current thread were a result of that older thread. Good luck finding it, but the "new" chart is in the current thread, this one. Stan's attribution of TPS for the updated chart was in error, his first.

If it is an error on my part it's because the error is posted on this website. I said clearly that i copied and pasted it from this site.

If anyone wants to look at it go here and see for yourself.

https://parkerguns.org

Click on "Technical Information" then scroll down and look under the heading " Frame Sizes by Gauge", and you will see exactly what I copied and pasted into my original post on this thread.

Now, please show me where I made an error, and I will admit and correct it. This website says it was taken from TPS. Or alternatively, tell me that there is an error on the website, or in TPS.

[Stan Hillis]

Originally Posted by Greg Baehman

Where did you see the above in TPS? The below is a pic taken of frame sizes on Pg. 527 in Vol. 2 of TPS. This chart varies from the above. In NOTES: lower left see “g”,as there are some exceptions not listed in chart.

I didn't see it in TPS. I saw it on this website and it states there that it was taken from TPS. See above post.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, your "error" was not of your making. The "error" was that the information was not taken directly from The Parker Story as implied. It was taken from the later correction of The Parker Story information, which was also incomplete and somewhat incorrect. My comment was not intended to disrespect your information, only to update it to better information. The best information is not from The Parker Story, but from corrections on this site.

[Reggie B]

Two frame 20s do exist. "Spin Drift" a member here has a 2 frame. I have never seen a 1/2 frame 20. When the 1/2 frame came into existence maybe that was an offered size and maybe there is one out there somewhere but I have never heard of one.

To add further confusion Steve Barnett Fine Guns has a 20 gauge currently in their inventory on a 1 1/2 frame. That is one rare bird!

[edgarspencer]

Has anyone seen a 1/2 frame in other than 12ga.?

[Stan Hillis]

I guess no one wants to breech the topic of whether the Parker Story is in error about this, or whether it was a matter of the guns being offered vs manufactured.

Not trying to start a ruckus, just trying to learn, in my quest for the perfect quail/woodcock double.

[ArtS]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

I guess no one wants to breech the topic of whether the Parker Story is in error about this, or whether it was a matter of the guns being offered vs manufactured.

Not trying to start a ruckus, just trying to learn, in my quest for the perfect quail/woodcock double.

I guess I would have to make the comment that nothing in a book such as TPS can be completely factual. A group of people have done an incredible job of tracking down data and information for years and compliling a body of work that has become the bible of a collector movement. However, there are obviously things that slip through, things that are illegible, and things that are known now that weren't available when the book was compiled. As much as exists in TPS, not everything is included and not everything is accurate.
One such item I was made aware of just the other day. I was of the opinion based on the production records in TPS that Parker made laminate barrels were used only on quality 2, 3 and 4 guns. Other knnowledgeable members here cited examples of lower and higher grade guns with those barrels. In addition, TPS only lists laminate style guns in relation to the Parker laminate barrels. However, a number of D2, D3 and D4 guns with factory barrels have correctly numbered Parker laminate barrels.

There is no way to correct this type of omission or error per se, but it would be nice if there was some method of clearing up these issues as a group and documenting them as time goes on. This would be extremely beneficial to younger people taking an interest in the guns down the road. They shouldn't be presented as a simple FAQ, but maybe a series of short "white papers" in the Parker info section so that beginners would have a source of study.



++++++++++++

EDIT

Note that I wrote this as a response to Stan's post, well before the further responses. However, I think the idea is still valid.

[Kevin McCormack]

From Art's post:

"There is no way to correct this type of omission or error per se, but it would be nice if there was some method of clearing up these issues as a group and documenting them as time goes on. This would be extremely beneficial to younger people taking an interest in the guns down the road. They shouldn't be presented as a simple FAQ, but maybe a series of short "white papers" in the Parker info section so that beginners would have a source of study."

An excellent suggestion in my view, if for no other reason than to encourage the (current) minimalist interest of young people in the American SxS double gun. If little else, it could help someone identify or verify the validity of original factory work vs. "Frankenguns" or other after-market inconsistencies. (The composite-barreled Trojan grade guns come to mind among others).

[George Lang]

VH 26" 5# 13oz O frame
Trojan 26" 6# 1oz O frame