Wm. H. Gough - Parker Chief Engraver 1899 - 1911

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

I would think a true artist-engraver would only need to look at and study the “pattern” then engrave it free-style by hand.

Craig once again shows examples of Wm. Gough’s fine work.

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Dean, I seriously doubt that engravers worked completely freehand. We’ve seen some of their templates in TPS.

[Craig Larter]

Dean How could my examples be Gough they were all shipped between 1916 and 1920?

[Dean Romig]

Let’s ask Geoffroy Gournet or Winston Churchill or Ken Hunt or any other of the best master engravers if they ever use a template…?

I would like to look at the templates in TPS that you refer to. What pages should we look on?


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[mobirdhunter]

I would like to know more about the process and how they transfer their work to the piece being engraved. I’d imagine there is thorough planning.

[Bill Jolliff]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

I would like to know more about the process and how they transfer their work to the piece being engraved. I’d imagine there is thorough planning.

Gary and Craig,

I sent a note to Jim DeMunck and mentioned this thread and how an engraver might go about setting up a job.

Here is his reply:

"I layout the major scroll line and that's it (aside from borders and if needed circle and oval type shapes within the pattern that may contain figures, initials etc)
The layout is simple pencil line on the clean steel surface. Sometimes I burnish the steel with a fine scotchbrite pad in diff directions first. That makes the pencil marks easier to see.
Then draw the major scroll lines but that's it. No detail with in them at all.
The drawn lines can be changed easily enough.

Sometimes I change my mind when cutting and make small changes in how a scroll will take off from another and things like that.
I don't fret about drawing them perfectly, I find I can not. I get them pretty good in pencil line. I can cut them better than I can draw them.

Lifting the final cut 'panel' of engraving for use as a pattern to be used again:
I take a piece of card stock, like a business card.
Rub some wax on one side. The wax is usually called transfer wax, I think you can still buy it.
I have some from yet from my beginning days I just keep adding to. Not too soft, not too hard.
The last time I melted in a green crayon to build it up.
Rub some of the wax on one side of the card.
On the other, dampen the card slightly, Either with your DNA from your tongue or a touch of water.

Now place the dampened side down on the engraving.
Hold it securely in place and take a Burnisher and run it back and forth over the waxed side (face up side)
The dampened card material will be pushed into the engraving cuts by the burnishing. The wax will prevent the card from being torn up during the process.
It doesn't take a lot of pressure, nor a lot of time.
The impression will reveal every little cut, mark, detail of the engraving in reverse of course when carefully pulled up and off.
Let the card dry for few minutes and there's your transfer pattern.

To lay the pattern back down on the next gun/piece your are doing:
Take the Transfer Wax again and get some onto your thumb.
Dot it onto the metal surface and cover the area. It wil look cloudy from the wax. That is what you want.
Then take the pattern and lightly swipe over it with a charcoal pen or a piece of dark colored chaulk.
You don't need a lot, Just enough to grab onto the high spots in the pattern. If you get more on it, just flick the pattern with your finger and the excess will fly off.

Lay the pattern back down onto the area carefully. Here I usually have already cut the pattern down to the borders or some other feature on it. That allows me to line it up easier on the gun.
Lay the pattern down. Hold it carefully in place and very lightly Burnish the back once again.
This time just a few strokes. You can even just use your finger for this.
This will imprint the charcoal/chaulk from the backside into the wax on the gun.
Lift off the pattern and there's your perfect image of the pattern you already cut.

You have to be careful of course, it can be easily smeared away.

That's a transfer image for the same side of the gun.
If you want to use that pulled image pattern for use on the other side of the gun, you can't as it will need to be reversed direction.
To do that:
Take the card with the pulled image and skip the wax on the back side.
Put wax on the image side this time. Right over and into the pulled pattern image.
Do the areas of the card that are out side the pattern as well.
Now use the charcoal pen/chaulk and go over the pattern as before.

This time take plain scotchtape and place it onto the pattern where you just waxed and charcoal/chaulked the image.
Lay down extra strip(s) if one won't cover the entire pattern.
Lightly burnish, then pull the tape off of the card.
The tape sticky side will have the charcoal image of the pattern on it, though very lightly.

Wax the metal surface where the pattern will go once again.
Then lay the tape pattern down n the waxed steel (this one is easier to line up as you can see through it at least some what.)
Lightly burnish again and remove the tape slowly.
The charcoal image will remain on the steel But it will be very light and I usually draw over the main scroll lines with pencil.
The tape with the image I stick down on a plain piece of paper and use that for reference while cutting should I loose any detail or cannot see exactly from the transfer what I need to see to cut it.
This tape stuck down on a piece of paper or cardboard will look like the familiar 'smoke print'.

Smoke prints are nice. They look great. Nice reference
But as far as using them for any sort of transfer process, I don't see their advantage.

There are other ways to transfer patterns. Everyone likely has their own way.
What ever works for you and gets you the best results IS the best way.

Results matter."

End of Jim's detailed explanation.

If this might generate some questions, post them here.

He usually spends the first day at the NE Shoot at Ernie's in June. I'm sure he'd be happy to talk about it down there too.

I hope this helps.

Bill

[Dean Romig]

Food for thought and further discussion…


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[mobirdhunter]

I think the issue of transferring a design to the metal, and then the execution of the design, might be where I’m not communicating well.

In TPS it is noted that, “Some templates and guides were used to layout some of the perfect circles and ellipses and to guide tools along borders where straight cuts were needed, but the other engraving was done freehand. (My italics.)

Further in this section it notes, “From the earliest times until the last Parker gun was engraved at Ilion, the actual design layout of the engraving pattern on the top grade guns was done by the chief engraving contractor, who also executed some, if not all, of the engraving of animals and birds on C (number 4) and above.” (Again, my italics and boldface.)

The text describing the engraving process goes on to state that plaster casts were made of “all engraving patterns…” The process description goes on, “The pattern in the plaster cast was filled with printer’s ink or ink and beeswax. Transparency paper was then place over the plaster cast to absorb the printers ink. Then the inked paper was pressed onto the polished soft steel surface of the gun to be engraved. By this means, the inked pattern was transferred onto the metal.” (My italics and boldface again.)

As an artist with training in printmaking, I am familiar with and have done various intaglio processes (engraving, drypoint, etching, mezzotint, and aquatint). Knowing something about these processes caused me to investigate and admire gun engraving. There are various processes for transferring designs/templates to the gun parts to be engraved (a web search will reveal many examples). The transfer process described in TPS is a standard process from my investigation, and there are other transfer processes that use wax, acetone and other means — all to facilitate the transfer of a preexisting design to the metal.

There is significant planning that goes into engraving as there is a confined space and little room for error. Having a sound process to transfer drawings and other designs is an important part of that planning, and in no way takes away from the skill and artistic ability of the engraver (I think it only adds to it). This is also not to say that once the design/template is transferred the engraver is not working with a free hand and can and does exercise his/her aesthetic inclinations.

The fact that these guns we love so much have a “production” element to them, unlike a one-of-a-kind engraving project, makes them even more special in their own way.

Dean, I appreciate your bringing up the Parker engraving process and the engravers, and I look forward to learning more from your study — thanks!

[Dean Romig]

Garry, we’ll have to sit down and discuss Parker engraving at length.
I agree with most of those things you point out but some aren’t clear enough IMO.
One point I disagree with is the point that the dogs and animals on grade 4 and higher were engraved by the chief engravers whereas it is the grade 3 and higher that were usually done by the chief engravers. I have several example pictures saved that prove this fact.

The template theory needs clarification too. Is is most likely that some sort of artwork was transferred to the frame panel but after that ink transfer was made the engraving was executed freehand with no mechanical aid. The engraver’s mind, eye, sense of form and finally his hand are most responsible for the artwork applied to cold steel.





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[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

Garry, we’ll have to sit down and discuss Parker engraving at length.
I agree with most of those things you point out but some aren’t clear enough IMO.
One point I disagree with is the point that the dogs and animals on grade 4 and higher were engraved by the chief engravers whereas it is the grade 3 and higher that were usually done by the chief engravers. I have several example pictures saved that prove this fact.

The template theory needs clarification too. Is is most likely that some sort of artwork was transferred to the frame panel but after that ink transfer was made the engraving was executed freehand with no mechanical aid. The engraver’s mind, eye, sense of form and finally his hand are most responsible for the artwork applied to cold steel.
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Dean, I have no idea about whether or not chief engravers executed the dogs on Grade 3 guns (I'd guess some guns yes, and some no). Based on my two 1918 guns, one a CH and the other a DH, I would wager they were both done by the same hand...whoever that was. Craig's wonderful examples bear testament to the ability of the engraver also.

As for the engraving done after the drawing was transferred, remember he created the drawing in the first place, and I agree about his artistic ability being responsible for the final work that we see. And I can attest, it's not a matter of just tracing. I've used a burin (nothing like the finer tools of the engraver), and can tell you that it requires much skill...and practice.

I see that you are going to the HOF banquet. Elaine and I are also. Maybe we can chat more about Parker engraving. I believe I could learn much from your years of observation and research.

[Craig Larter]

Jim DeMunck is a very talented engraver I know who lives in Rochester and shoots with our gang a few times per year. Jim has done many of the high grade CSMC Fox guns and many others for Tony. I asked Jim if he used a pattern to cut his scroll and he said no, he lays it out in his head and just starts cutting metal!!! His statement blew me away. These are one off guns and Jim is a master. Jim told me my Philadelphia XE Fox guns were made using a inked pattern. I asked him how he could determine that. He said they had one layout pattern, used it on the first side and then flipped it over for the second side, the engraving will be a perfect mirror image.