3 day inspection/transfer

[Larry the Gun Guy]

I agree with Bob J. the 4473 is a form required by the government and has nothing to do with the inspection and approval of the purchase of a gun. If I am buying a gun I, like Bob, want to really understand what I am getting; including shooting it. I wouldn't buy a car without driving it. Would you? You can't tell if all the functionality works without shooting it. Maybe it patterns two or three feet to the left, that has happened. However, if I think that's necessary I talk with the seller about what ammo I want to shoot in it, they have always agreed. I also don't agree with the "return for any reason, no reason". The potential buyer has taken that gun out of the market for about 10-15 days during one of these transactions. That gun potentially could have sold to another person looking for the same thing, but that other buyer satisfied their need by buying something else. Sometimes those are the only buyers looking for that gun at that time. It could go months before another person may be interested in that particular gun. Only if the gun has been misrepresented in some way would I consider taking it back, not because the buyer wasn't serious or they were fickle.

[Phil Yearout]

Guess I've been lucky because I've never had to return or refuse a gun. But now that I think about it, I didn't think about my accepting the gun at the FFL as being the final acceptance. As was mentioned earlier, that's just "paperwork" to me; I assumed I'd be able to take it home, look it over carefully, and still reject it if I didn't feel it was what I thought it would be. You've given me something to think about if I ever buy another. I will say this: Every gun I've purchased has been from someone I was somewhat familiar with through the boards, etc. In a couple instances there has been an issue with the gun and there was discussion about me returning the gun. In those instances the sellers were amenable to that and most accommodating but we've been able to work out the issue with a price adjustment, agreement to repair, etc. I've never bought a gun through one of the listing sites and now I wonder if those sellers would be as accommodating, reasonable, etc.?

[winplumber]

Why call it a 3 day inspection if some say its over after you sign the FFL ? I say three days starts after its signed and you have time to check it over at your pace not in some gun store with a bunch of people looking over your shoulder , Im with Bob J

[6pt-Sika]

Originally Posted by Steve Huffman

Why call it a 3 day inspection if some say its over after you sign the FFL ? I say three days starts after its signed and you have time to check it over at your pace not in some gun store with a bunch of people looking over your shoulder , Im with Bob J

The three days starts from the day the dealer gets the package . If you can’t look at the said item and ascertain within three days while at your dealers establishment as far as I’m concerned you’re oughtta luck . When you allow a lot of folks to take home etc the next thing you know some of the jerks have taken the gun apart not put it back together correctly and then claim it didn’t work when recieved . Or possibly they take it to their club for a practice round with their chronies and next thing you know they’ve beaten it up and decide they don’t want the dings knicks and scratches they caused while they were “looking at it” . And on the really extreme example you have folks that will buy with no intention of keeping take the gun home take out a part or two they might or might not need and replace with something that’s exceedingly worn broken etc . Waiting until you sign for it and then doing the three days is BS , suppose sad buyer waits a week before he picks the gun up ? No , he’ll no !

[B. Dudley]

If a seller wants to not consider the 4473 and take the gun back after ownership has been legally transferred then so be it. There is nothing to stop them from doing that. Again, Details of what is allowed and not allowed should be agreed upon so there are no questions if you are concerned about it.

Just consider in the case where a seller is an individual (not an FFL). If the gun is transferred to the buyer on a 4473 and then goes back, the receiving FFL now cannot return that gun back to the seller. It must go through an FFL on the sellers end and then get transferred back to the seller on another 4473. Which will likely end up costing the seller money which will then likely just end up being deducted from the buyers refund along with cost of ahipping both ways (which is also customary).
Whereas if the gun was not transferred to the buyer, it could just be sent directly back by the FFL because ownership was not transferred. The FFL is the legal middle man to facilitate the transfer of ownership.

[Victor Wasylyna]

I think it is ridiculous that we need permission from the federal government to buy/sell things. Therefore, I also think it is ridiculous to treat the act of obtaining such federal government permission (the NICS check) as tolling the three day inspection period.

I say do the FFL transfer, take it home, inspect it, and return it within three days of picking it up. Otherwise, it’s yours.

-Victor

[Bruce Hering]

In IL we have a three day wait period or "jail time" as some may call it. This only takes place after the 4473 is filled out and NICS is called. I have no way of checking a gun out of the FFL until this "wait time" is up. That being the case I have told sellers I dont want the three day inspection to start until I can take the gun home.

This can create a problem. Illinois has, as many of you know, a 3 day wait on hand off of a gun from FFL to purchaser.

[Phil C]

When I sell a gun to a member here it is different then when I sell a gun else where. I generally allow the gun to be shot and give 3 days from time they pick up. I send tracking updates so there really is not a reason for the buyer not to know what day the gun will arrive and they get a notice that the gun delivered.
If the 4473 has been done and they change their mind I would expect that since the gun has been transferred. The buyer would be responsible for the shipping both ways and the cost of the FFL holder to transfer the gun to them, transfer the gun back to me, and be responsible for the cost of the FFL on my end. This is subject to change if the buyer discovers something that was missed of importance when I sold him the gun.

[Aaron Beck]

I found out the hard way that the common interpretation is mostly the former. Sign and you own it. Now my assumption as a layman was I had three days to inspect the gun without shooting it and the ffl was a govt tax/formality which was more part of the shipping process prior to the inspection period. I was wrong and ended up with no recourse but to keep said gun. Lesson learned.
In an ideal world you would be buying a classy gun from a classy gentleman and as a gentleman of class oneself you would honestly appraise the gun in your own premises, while honoring the wishes of the seller (dont shoot, dont disassemble). If the details dont add up, then you would pack and return the gun properly and pay the freight, insurance, ffl charges etc apologize for the trouble and get some of your money back. As detailed in the FAQ section of this website, there is no way to fully evaluate a used gun in the time you might have at the store and definitely not unless you are pretty experienced and have possibly made a few mistakes in the past. You might get this kind of service from a local gun store where you were known or from a friend but friendships have foundered on less. Ive come to see the ffl form as the logical point of transfer but likely wont be buying sight unseen again.

[Cold Spring]

Many opinions here are heavily slanted in the buyer's favor. And specially so to the casual buyer who wants to be into vintage guns but won't invest in a bore mike, chamber and choke gauges, etc to take to the FFL's shop for an inspection during the 3 day period period that starts when received by the licensee. So you're on a business trip and can't make it then? Do your homework and ask the seller to ship so it arrives when you're back in town. This isn't satellite orbit level planning.

You want 3 days after filling out a 4473 to show the gun to your buds at the club for their learned opinions? Be sure to get the seller's agreement on that before you bid or buy.

Not much has been said here as regards hassle to the seller when he spends time to pack, drives to the shipping drop-off place, sweats out damage or loss while in shipment and having to deal with an insurance claim while the buyer gets his almost immediate refund from the seller; then if the buyer returns the gun for some casual or bs reason it puts a stigma on that gun and makes it harder to sell when re-advertised because the pool of us who are interested in this vintage stuff is limited and most will remember seeing the gun while previously advertised and "sold" ..... must be something wrong with it.

All of this is why I much prefer to legally sell vintage guns while at SxS events where the buyer can inspect to his/her heart's content and even shoot a few shots to test functioning. Legal transfer to your 03 or 01 FFL or using Form 4473, and you own it.