Bismuth Handload

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by Jerry Harlow

I just picked some loads using Cheddite hulls which are readily available in new primed form from the two sources. Remembering that Bismuth is lighter than lead, I feel that the few more grains of Longshot delivering the shot at perhaps 100 fps faster would give the same penetration as lead, since Bismuth will not have quite the killing power. Longshot I have found is a very dirty burning powder, perhaps not burning completely, and maybe the reason for heavier charges in the Cheddite hull which I use it with, as compared to the WWAA hull using less powder but a hotter primer. I think the recoil since both are 1 1/4 ounce loads would be negligible and unnoticed, but that is a decision for the shooter.

The slowest load you posted was at 1350 fps, that will produce 22% more recoil than an 1 1/4 ounce load going 1250. At 1400 fps recoil is 32% greater. That is a significant difference that both the gun and shooter have to absorb, one is going to feel it. Bismuth does act like lead and velocity is the enemy of tight patterns, in addition bismuth is more brittle and pellets have been known to shatter further reducing effectiveness. The old timers knew to increase killing power at longer range you increase the mass of the pellet, it still works today. I have been shooting bismuth reloads in 12 and 10 gauge for about 25 years with good effect. Loads moving at 1150 to 1250 work great with the proper shot size, I found there is no need to beat up a gun and shoulder with a higher velocity. I have never concerned myself with whether a powder is dirty or not unless I am shooting a gas automatic.

[Joe from MO]

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

Loads moving at 1150 to 1250 work great with the proper shot size, I found there is no need to beat up a gun and shoulder with a higher velocity. I have never concerned myself with whether a powder is dirty or not unless I am shooting a gas automatic.

This is the sort of load I am looking for. I care more about the gun than I do killing ducks. And, I am not a pass shooter, I like to pull them into the stool, before taking them... So, Bismuth is lighter, so what shot size do you like for decoying ducks? #4 or #5 would be my thinking, I always liked #5's when shooting lead back in the day.

Thanks for all the responses. I have over 40 years in metalic cartridge handloads, but just started with shot shells last year when I picked up a friend of mine's MEC Sizemaster. So far I have only loaded #8 1 1/8 oz target loads. And still get frustrated trying to figure out how to get the perfect crimp......

[J. A. EARLY]

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[Woodcock survey]

[QUOTE=Jerry Harlow;302853]

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

The slowest load you posted was at 1350 fps, that will produce 22% more recoil than an 1 1/4 ounce load going 1250. At 1400 fps recoil is 32% greater.

Just wondering why if both loads are 1 1/4 ounces, 100 fps more would produce 22% greater recoil and 200 fps 32%. What is the source for these percentage figures? In an 8 pound 2 frame gun(with two shells in the chambers)? Just looking for the source since I don't see or feel the same in one ounce target loads at 1150 fps compared to the one ounce hunting loads at 1250 fps. Thanks.

If memory serves(ha-ha) Tom Roster did an article for Shooting Sportsman 4-5 or more years ago on that subject . You pay a stiff price in recoil for a small increase in velocity. The bigger downside is how fast that added velocity is lost.
It may seem counter- intuitive but the 100 fps gain does not carry downrange at that increase but at 40 yds. is negligible.

[J.B. Books]

[QUOTE=Jerry Harlow;302853]

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

The slowest load you posted was at 1350 fps, that will produce 22% more recoil than an 1 1/4 ounce load going 1250. At 1400 fps recoil is 32% greater.

Just wondering why if both loads are 1 1/4 ounces, 100 fps more would produce 22% greater recoil and 200 fps 32%. What is the source for these percentage figures? In an 8 pound 2 frame gun(with two shells in the chambers)? Just looking for the source since I don't see or feel the same in one ounce target loads at 1150 fps compared to the one ounce hunting loads at 1250 fps. Thanks.

I used an online shotgun recoil calculator to get precise difference in ft lbs for 7 pound 12 ounce gun which is about what most 12ga Trojans weigh.

http://www.huntamerica.com/recoil_calculator/

An ounce and quarter at 1350 to 1450 is way too stiff for my tastes and too stiff for old classic doubles as far as I am concerned. You definitely do not need that kind of velocity to kill waterfowl with the right size bismuth shot, even at 40 yards. Have you patterned them at 40 yards to see what they are doing?

[Joe from MO]

I was looking around yesterday, and ran across these. They say they are safe for classic guns, but I dunno.... Sure seems pretty hot for a SxS that is almost 100 yrs old.... Says on side of box, for Modern or Classic guns.... I might shoot them out of my model 12, which is a 1946 gun..... But I'd think they have a pretty solid thump to them.

SPECS
Gauge: 12
Shell Length: 2 3/4"
Shot Weight: 1 1/4 oz
Muzzle Velocity: 1400 FPS

https://www.rogerssportinggoods.com/...oz-Case-of-250

[J. A. EARLY]

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[Joe from MO]

Originally Posted by Jerry Harlow

At $1.20 a shell I don't think you can load them that cheaply, especially if you value your time to load that many. That is a great price. As for me, I would not hesitate to shoot them in my number 2 frame guns, Sterlingworths, etc. Just me.

I ordered stuff to do some handloads.... Not to save money, because I have never saved a nickel doing handloads... But, because I enjoy doing it.

I am sure my Parker could handle those loads, but will enjoy making my own.... I can't remember the last time I killed a deer with a factory load, I don't have to do it that way, but I enjoy it....

[J. A. EARLY]

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[Dakota Jeff]

I dont have as many years experience as J.B.but I think you would have good results with the #5s at the distance you described.I have had some testing done by Tom Armbrust,and by his recomendation and as stated above,1200 fps is a good velocity as it may produce a better pattern than faster loads.I like using cheddite hulls as per the hodgdon site they usually produce less pressure than most other hulls.They usually require a little more powder as they have a greater case capacity than most other hulls.The loads listed on Hodgdons site are plenty fast with this hull.I visited with Tom a couple nights ago and he is coming to my place for a visit in a month or so,and I talked him into bringing his pressure barrel along.We plan on testing some 10 and 12 gauge bismuth loads.With Toms permission I can post some of them on here.There are many good loads posted by the powder companys,but most are a little hotter than I want to shoot through my older guns.No sense beating them up.There are several sources for bismuth.I have purchased some from Roto Metals and thought it looked good.They sometimes put it on sale.If you want to get any shells tested,I have Toms number and address.Precision reloading in Mitchell S.D.also does testing.