QUESTIONS FOR COLLECTORS

[King Cobb]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

It's interesting that Parker would cut the barrels from the gun you mention, Gary, and not for Askins. What year was your V grade sent back for the barrel work?

I would imagine it in part had to do with Parker needing to sell guns in 1935.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Gary Carmichael Sr

I once was the owner of a V grade 12 gauge that was originally 30" It was 28" when I bought it The Parker letter said that it was sent back to have 2 inches cut off the barrels but what was interesting was Parker just cut the barrels no line on the rib, so if you find a gun with no line on the rib it may be factory work, just saying Gary

But did Parker Bros reset keels under the ribs and trim them properly or is there just lead solder under the ribs.

My money’s on the keels being properly reset and trimmed. That’s the difference between Parker Bros factory work and a ‘hack job’.






.

[King Cobb]

Not to me personally, but there are pllenty of gun guys who chase guns attached to Askins Jr or Sr. In 1935, it is entirely possible Jr. had already started ghost writing for his father in outdoor life.

Anyway, I would argue that for the askins folks if the gun could be verified as the correct gun, it would bring a nice premium over a gun he had just owned that was original.

Heck, just look at a few of the colt border patrols that have sold on occasion that were documented as having been modified by Jr when he was the armorer for them.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Bill Holcombe

Not to me personally, but there are pllenty of gun guys who chase guns attached to Askins Jr or Sr. In 1935, it is entirely possible Jr. had already started ghost writing for his father in outdoor life.

Anyway, I would argue that for the askins folks if the gun could be verified as the correct gun, it would bring a nice premium over a gun he had just owned that was original.

Heck, just look at a few of the colt border patrols that have sold on occasion that were documented as having been modified by Jr when he was the armorer for them.

Bill,

A very reasonable assertion as far as I can see. Askins did a great deal of consulting with some of the double gun makers, at least as he tells it. History has an odd way of valuing individuals, and is quite fickle over time. I wonder if Askins might be on par with, say, McIntosh, a hundred years hence. McIntosh's guns were available after his untimely death, and as I recall there was a bit of a mark-up for his having owned and written about them.

On the Colts; I know absolutely nothing about them, but over the years of attending Rock Island auctions where they frequently have lots of Colts, I am very intrigued with the prices they command and the obvious interest in them. I still have a Colt double barrel shotgun on my "list" to buy. I'd sure like to sit by someone like you at an auction and learn a little more about them as they sell. Guns are fascinating fragments of history.

[Kensal Rise]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

... Guns are fascinating fragments of history.

Indeed. Those guns which have been owned by the various characters of history are, to me, the most valuable. Otherwise they are more or less commodities.

Thus, to ME, a gun modified by Askins is imbued with a story about the hands and times of a great shooter. It's a part of America's sporting heritage. More so than a perfect gun in pristine condition. To ME, perfect guns are merely a time capsule of production standards.

To cite but a few, I've owned double guns once in the collections of President Theodore Roosevelt and Sir Winston Churchill's father. They were far more than guns. They were tactile connections to great men and great times. Men who held these very guns in their storied hands. And they were not perfect. The guns, nor the men.

But they were HISTORY!

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by John Campbell

Indeed. Those guns which have been owned by the various characters of history are, to me, the most valuable. Otherwise they are more or less commodities.

Thus, to ME, a gun modified by Askins is imbued with a story about the hands and times of a great shooter. It's a part of America's sporting heritage. More so than a perfect gun in pristine condition. To ME, perfect guns are merely a time capsule of production standards.

To cite but a few, I've owned double guns once in the collections of President Theodore Roosevelt and Sir Winston Churchill's father. They were far more than guns. They were tactile connections to great men and great times. Men who held these very guns in their storied hands. And they were not perfect. The guns, nor the men.

But they were HISTORY!

John,

Good to read another side to this issue, and I'm glad to see that other points of view are being posted.

Gosh, to own a gun from TR's collection would be quite an honor!

[King Cobb]

Originally Posted by Garry L Gordon

Bill,

A very reasonable assertion as far as I can see. Askins did a great deal of consulting with some of the double gun makers, at least as he tells it. History has an odd way of valuing individuals, and is quite fickle over time. I wonder if Askins might be on par with, say, McIntosh, a hundred years hence. McIntosh's guns were available after his untimely death, and as I recall there was a bit of a mark-up for his having owned and written about them.

On the Colts; I know absolutely nothing about them, but over the years of attending Rock Island auctions where they frequently have lots of Colts, I am very intrigued with the prices they command and the obvious interest in them. I still have a Colt double barrel shotgun on my "list" to buy. I'd sure like to sit by someone like you at an auction and learn a little more about them as they sell. Guns are fascinating fragments of history.

Oh I don't know squat about suctions. I just know what I have read. Regarding the askins border patrols. He modified and adjusted all of them they received while he was armorer. Some of the ones that can be linked to his time as armorer bring big bucks if still in correct condition. It probably also helps that many people don't seem to realize that col and maj askins are a son and fsther as opposed to one long lived individual.

As to the point on McIntosh, I have gotten a great deal of pleasure from his writings and while I could never afford it, I would love to own a parker that was his...or Rutledges or Buckinghams.

Just as I am certain Dean would rather own Burt Spiller's parker than a similar grade in factory mint condition?

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Bill Holcombe

Oh I don't know squat about suctions. I just know what I have read. Regarding the askins border patrols. He modified and adjusted all of them they received while he was armorer. Some of the ones that can be linked to his time as armorer bring big bucks if still in correct condition. It probably also helps that many people don't seem to realize that col and maj askins are a son and fsther as opposed to one long lived individual.

As to the point on McIntosh, I have gotten a great deal of pleasure from his writings and while I could never afford it, I would love to own a parker that was his...or Rutledges or Buckinghams.

Just as I am certain Dean would rather own Burt Spiller's parker than a similar grade in factory mint condition?

Bill,

Very salient points made, and done so quite nicely. Oh, for Archibald Rutledge's Parker that his students gave him and that he hunted deer with around Hampton! And I'd almost forgotten Spiller's Parker...and Foster's "Little Gun," and so many other storied guns from the past.

So, if anyone asks me if I would value most an original Parker or one with lesser condition but with historic provenance, my answer is an unequivocal "yes!"

[Researcher]

I'm getting the feeling you guys just don't have a proper appreciation for Askins the elder or the noted gunsmith Gladstone Blake Crandall. One of the longest running threads ever in the Browning section of Shotgunworld.com was on Major Askins Browning Superposed --

http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...?f=53&t=124719

Of course Parker Bros. told him to buy a new gun, they wanted to move some product! I know from the collectors point of view these modifications old Chas. had done are abhorrent, but the gun just could be a great shooter and have some great stories with it.

[Researcher]

Nash Buckingham's famous BoWhoop started life as an HE-Grade Super-Fox with XE-Grade wood and engraving.

31088 14 Production Card.jpg

The Author's ten-pound Becker Magnums.jpg

By the early 1930s it had been worked over and restocked by Burt Becker to more nearly match his "Bartholomew" gun 33059 (lower gun in the above pic).

Nash with BoWhoop, with ivory inlay.jpg

When found, BoWhoop's Becker stock was broken, and it was subsequently restocked and still sold for big dollars.