Shotshell Pressure Question?

[Mike Stahle]

Originally Posted by Bill Bates

Wow, early this morning I risked life and limb. I shot the GH and survived. It seemed to handle the 2 3/4" Winchester Targets 2 3/4 dram, 1 1/8 oz. 1145 fps loads with out a hitch.

Bill, that isn’t a sissy load as I found out last evening. I was using that same load with #8 shot (ones I have pictured) I sent a big old groundhog into the promised land from about 20 to 25 paces away. That hog reacted as if hit by a 45-70. I was very impressed to say the least. Those old 30” full and full choke barrels hold a tight reach out there and get’m pattern.

[Bruce Day]

Mike, pardon me for being stupid, but what is a maximum average? I wonder if I fell asleep in college math classes.

Bill, I'm surprised you are here to tell the tale. No unraveling of the damascus barrel, no shrapnel, all fingers still? I suspect that a 1 1/8oz 2 3/4 dre load with larger shot could actually kill a pheasant. I know, all the Golden Pheasant and Black Swarm and $15 a box manufacturers don't think so, but maybe I'll try it again this season.

Did I mention the Benelli auto that blew the barrel midsection? Yep, a buddy sent me the photo. His brother slipped a 20ga shell into a 12ga barrel by accident. Proof positive that Benelli barrels should not be shot.

[Mike Stahle]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

Mike, pardon me for being stupid, but what is a maximum average? I wonder if I fell asleep in college math classes.
Bill, I'm surprised you are here to tell the tale. No unraveling of the damascus barrel, no shrapnel, all fingers still? I suspect that a 1 1/8oz 2 3/4 dre load with larger shot could actually kill a pheasant. I know, all the Golden Pheasant and Black Swarm and $15 a box manufacturers don't think so, but maybe I'll try it again this season.

Did I mention the Benelli auto that blew the barrel midsection? Yep, a buddy sent me the photo. His brother slipped a 20ga shell into a 12ga barrel by accident. Proof positive that Benelli barrels should not be shot.

LOL Bruce, you got me brother, I have no idea.
The more I look into this Damascus barrel and pressure thing,
the more confused I’m getting. My eyeballs are starting to bleed
and I have started on the second roll of duck tape around my head.
I’m beginning to truly think this whole thing was indeed invented
by the big gun and ammo. manufactures to sell new guns and super
duper 4” magnum hit the moon shotshells.

[Paul Harm]

I think Mr. Bell showed that damascus barrels are pretty safe. That known, why does everyone say shoot low pressure loads ? Because we don't want to shoot the action loose and to show some respect to 100+ year old guns. It's better to be safe than sorry. I keep my loads under 7000 psi. One thing not discussed was low pressure means less deformation of shot = better patterns. Paul

[Bruce Day]

Randy Wakefield's recommendation to have damascus barrels x-rayed or other NDI ( non destructive testing) procedure to find cracks was particularly strange. These are composite barrels, not homogenous, and all an x-ray shows is thousands of little lines from the iron and steel ribands that will look like cracks. So I suspect he is recommending something that he has never done or read the reports of being done on damascus barrels.

In response to Paul's comment, I don't know who everyone is, but I use the Parker shot and dram loads for the gauge, gun weight and period of manufacture as my guideline for shooting factory hunting loads in fluid or composite barrels and then back off at least in shot load for clays shooting. When I reload for clays shooting, I use moderate burn rate powders because I don't want the gun or my shoulder to get whacked. I don't specifically pursue low pressure loads, nor do many other people I know.

I suppose its also best for preservation of my vintage sports car to never drive it above 60 mph, but I like to know that I can, and every once in a while, I like to drive it to its capabilities, which in truth are greater than my personal comfort zone.

[Bill Bates]

I've been pondering the safe to shoot Damascus question for some time. It seemed almost a silly question after awhile. Many English guns show current nitro proof stamps. Many people still are shooting guns without those proof stamps.

The people that seem to be in they are bombs waiting to go off crowd mostly are working from a friend of a friend point of view.

My GH Damascus was manufactured in 1924. I have feeling that Parker after 50 plus years would know by then if there was some inherent problem with Damascus and twist barrels. I doubt the first owner of my Parker spent a lot of time searching out "low pressure" loads. Likely he or she wandered down to the local hardware store and bought whatever 2 3/4" shell they could find with the preferred shot size.

When I bought my GH I bought it to shoot. The bores were excellent and untouched by a hone. The wall thickness was as it should be. There are no dents dings or pits. The barrels are on face. There are no cracks in the stock. I would have considered all of those things when deciding if a gun was safe to shoot no matter fluid steel or Damascus. My GH is a good sound gun. I'll shoot as God and Parker Bros. intended. I’ll keep it in proper working order and pay attention for possible barrel obstructions just like I would any other firearm.

In my job i do get to see plenty of shotguns with split, damaged barrels. We had a new 870 with a pretty good split and no more more choke tube brought back just the other day. A little mud will do that as the youngman learned.

Okay that was my ramble for the day. Now it is time to get ready and go to work. I have guns to photograph.

[Mike Stahle]

"Okay that was my ramble for the day. Now it is time to get ready and go to work. I have guns to photograph."

"Work"? Bill, you have one very sweet job.

[Drew Hause]

Mike: you'll note the 'revdocdrew' fella did a little jousting with Randy on that first ShotgunWorld thread http://www.shotgunworld.com/bbs/view...p?f=3&t=209636

This is Randy's authoritative source:
Clark Towle http://yarchive.net/gun/barrel/damascus_barrels.html
"I know of no true damascus barreled shotguns that were ever proofed for smokeless powder."

Nitro Proof 1 1/2 oz.



"No hay peor ciego que el que no quiere ver."
The worst blindness is refusing to see.

[Bill Bates]

Originally Posted by Mike Stahle

"Okay that was my ramble for the day. Now it is time to get ready and go to work. I have guns to photograph."

"Work"? Bill, you have one very sweet job.

You haven't seen my pay checks, they barely covered what I was spending at work. It is like being a user and dealer at the same time. It keeps you broke but you keep going back for a fresh fix.

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

Drew,

I have a Parker GH Damascus 10 GA that is proofed to 3 & 1/2 tons or 10,500 PSI.

I'll try to post a photo soon...

Mark