Shotshell Pressure Question?

[Mike Stahle]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

Be careful in saying anything. You'll have the low pressure police after you.
I've shot thousands of rounds of moderate pressure factory shells through my damascus guns, as have other major collectors I know. One of the most significant collectors buys shells from Wal-Mart and blasts away with high grade guns, yet he won't say anything here because of adverse comments it would raise. Others buy Win AA Lights and Ultra Lights by the multi case lot, one even buys a pallet every year and fires away through a damascus AH.

But, over the years, I have seen several guns rupture. All have been fluid steel barreled. Proof positive that you need to be careful in shooting fluid steel guns.

Hummm… have we lost our “you know what’s” that bad?

An is it true question: I remember being either told or reading that a shotshell
will not rupture or blowup if it went off and or was set off outside of a gun barrel.
(NO this one I am not going to try no how)

[Bruce Day]

I've urged folks to familiarize themselves with the proof and service loads table in TPS and to follow the shot loads for the gauge provided by Parker and reproduced in TPS, and as just restated by Austin. If a person keeps the shot charge down to what Parker recommended for the gauge and pushes that charge at moderate velocities, say 1050 to 1200fps, then most all the time, they will be below the service limits. And as has been noted by Dave Noreen, dram equivalents correlate to speed.

Some of the most extreme examples of low pressure police we have had here have been when they have told people who have heavy duck 2 frame 8lb 12's with .040-.050" wall thickness that they must shoot low pressure loads. That said, I'm not a fan of these 1 1/4oz or even more 12ga loads pushed at 1300-1450 fps that the manufacturers are making and touting as premium ( and costly) pheasant loads.

And Mike, I remember when I was a kid throwing a shotshell in the fire and running the other direction. Common sense prevailed and the expected result occurred.

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

Bruce,

Well stated! While Parker barrels in good condition should withstand high pressure loads the stock will be damaged. I think the action will certainly also loosen after a diet of 8500-11000 PSI loads! The steel grades of 1890 were not what we have today.

From personal experiance, this early season I took 5 geese using 1 & 1/8 oz of Nice Shot #2 at 1200 FPS and 7000 PSI. I dropped two of those geese at 50 yards. I think that I need to load some 1 & 1/4 oz Nice Shot for my Parker 10 gauges! One never knows when a 60 yard shot will be needed..

Good shooting to all! Keep the pressure down and you'll be able to pass on your Parkers to the next generation!

Respectfully,
Mark

[Austin W Hogan]

Here is another old figure from the disc cleanup. It shows serial numbers and Parker events vs calendar year from Charlie's Serialization, TSP and other sources. The reason supporting 80% of Parkers being made for loads much lighter than the modern day is that s/n 200000 appears in the early 1920's at least 5 years prior to Super X and Remington Express.
By 1930 factory 16 and 20 ga loads exceeded the 10 gauge loads, and 12 gauge loads exceeded the ten gauge and approached the 8 gauge of 1900. The production graph shoes 50% of Parkers were made before 1900. The only steady plodder was the 2 3/4 or 3 dram 1 1/8 ounce twelve ga load.
Incidentally dram equivalent is not a complex concept; it is a load that produces the same speed as that amount of black powder behind the same shot charge.

Best, Austin

[Bruce Day]

80,000 rounds later and the only part that loosened on my old ( 1921) PHE 16ga was the forend lug, which had to be resoldered. The hinge is still tight. Oh, and the hammer springs had to be replaced, and the ejector springs, and the top lever spring, the bolt plate replaced, the checkering recut, the barrels reblued, the stock refinished, and the trigger sears recut, and the ejector sears recut.....but other than that the action is tight, and most of those have been factory shells, and for the last 40 years 1 oz Rem and Win loads. More recently I've gone to 7/8oz loads for clays. Might help make the old girl last.

Here's the decrepit, well used 16ga, on the bottom...the top one is Charlie's usual bird gun, a VHE 12ga.

[Bill Bates]

This thead has been interesting and a bit confusing. I've yet to shoot my 1920s vintage GH damascus barreled 12 gauge. I've been worried about the pressure question and other than a few manufacture getting pressure data for a given factory load is tough.

I'm beginning to thikn I've been worrying to much. The barrels measure like they have never been touched and the bores are in great shape. I guess pretty much any 1 1/8 oz. 2 3/4 dram load should be fine.

One quick question, the Bownell chamber guages stops at 2 5/8" so will plastic 2 3/4" shells be okay or should I go with 2 1/2" shells?

[Bill Murphy]

2 5/8" chambers are made for 2 3/4" and shorter shells. By the way, mid 20's 12 gauge Parkers were commonly patterned at Parker Brothers with 1 1/4 ounce shells.

[Bruce Day]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

2 5/8" chambers are made for 2 3/4" and shorter shells. By the way, mid 20's 12 gauge Parkers were commonly patterned at Parker Brothers with 1 1/4 ounce shells.

Yes, 1 1/4oz at 3 1/4 dre, which is a stouter load than I care to shoot. Now that is a heavy load, and Parker made damascus 12ga's up until, what's the last one found, 1927? Parker marked them Overload Proved.

[Bruce Day]

Or maybe just buy some Win AA 2 5/8" shells. The 1 oz AA ExtraLights are a delight to shoot.

You might have to call your local sporting goods store and have them order in several flats. Sometimes they don't stock them because they don't have enough recoil to cycle through autos very well , but the O/U shooters love them. But I've shot the 1 1/8 AA's at 2 3/4dre's also , little more kick.

The first time I shot a damascus barreled gun I approached it with trepidation....all the club house experts talking about how damascus would unravel like a spring, how the barrels would heat up and the solder melt, how black powder was so much slower burning than smokeless, how shells in a box marked 2 3/4 would cause drastic overpressures and this gun would blow up on me and shower shrapnel all over. So the picture is this: I put on an old military helmet, a pair of motorcycle goggles, a heavy jacket, boots, long heavy leather gloves, jeans with heavy Filson chaps....and its in the 90's, I'm sweating like a pig, holding the GH 12 at arms length with my head down. I pull the trigger and there is a pop, the gun jumps a little but and absolutely nothing unusual happens. It shoots with less recoil than the tank like Mod 21. So I shoot a few more times, then take off all the clothes that make me look like Ralphie in A Christmas Story, and shoot a round of trap with the other guys standing back. And this old gun just smokes em and its a lot of fun.

So, if you want to send me the 1920's GH, I can break it in for you , but it might take several years just to be sure.

[Mike Stahle]

Originally Posted by Bruce Day

Or maybe just buy some Win AA 2 5/8" shells. The 1 oz AA ExtraLights are a delight to shoot.

You might have to call your local sporting goods store and have them order in several flats. Sometimes they don't stock them because they don't have enough recoil to cycle through autos very well , but the O/U shooters love them. But I've shot the 1 1/8 AA's at 2 3/4dre's also , little more kick.

The first time I shot a damascus barreled gun I approached it with trepidation....all the experts talking about how damascus would unravel like a spring, how the barrels would heat up and the solder melt, how black powder was so much slower burning than smokeless, how shells in a box marked 2 3/4 would cause drastic overpressures and this gun would blow up on me and shower shrapnel all over. So the picture is this: I put on an old military helmet, a pair of motorcycle goggles, a heavy jacket, boots, long heavy leather gloves, jeans with heavy Filson chaps....and its in the 90's, I'm sweating like a pig, holding the GH 12 at arms length with my head down. I pull the trigger and there is a pop, the gun jumps a little but and absolutely nothing unusual happens. It shoots with less recoil than the tank like Mod 21. So I shoot a few more times, then take off all the clothes that make me look like Ralphie in A Christmas Story, and shoot a round of trap with the other guys standing back. And this old gun just smokes em and its a lot of fun.

So, if you want to send me the 1920's GH, I can break it in for you , but it might take several years just to be sure.

Bruce, That was exactly me last evening.