Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge?

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella

Forrest vs. Destry:

Forrest, you have the right to an opinion, but your "fair chase" argument is faulty if you think it's okay to kill a turkey with a rifle, and not an 8 ga. Now, if you want to outlaw rifles, that's a different story. This is much to do about nothing and really has nothing to do with "fair chase". Rifle, shotgun, bow-what's the difference so long as you're not shooting them in a cage.

And don't worry about gun makers producing 8 ga's. They could do it now cause my research shows that using 8 ga's are legal in many states for nonmigratory game. Why aren't they making them? Cause there is no demand!

Heck, if you think about it, we can even legally use punts guns for nonmigratory game. Fla regs say game can be taken with shotguns. Only limits are that deer/turkey can't be taken with anything smaller then 20 ga and migratory game can't be taken with anything larger then 10 ga. But don't tell Destry cause I don't want him to come down here with his punt gun and shoot my turkeys! (haha)

Men of goodwill can disagree and have different opinions. It doesn't make them unethical. You shouldn't attack a man's ethics because he has a different view.

You also keep saying "many people" would be "uncomfortable" and wouldn't consider using 8 ga "fair chase". Who are these folks? Who are you speaking for? It seems most folks here don't share your view. To these folks I ask: can any of you come up with a rational, factual basis for permitting turkeys to be taken with a rifle and not an 8 ga without questioning someone's ethics or merely expressing an opinion. I would honestly like to know if I'm overlooking something here.

If would read my earlier post I addressed the rifle/turkey issue. And actually the people who agree with me on the issue of the 8 ga. are the ones who have not overturned the law in the past 100 years. If the Federal ban on 8 gauge guns for waterfowl was lifted, new SAAMI regulations would be put in place making it possible for shotgun manufacturers to produce one. Like Destry alluded to, all it would take is an idiot news reporter holding an 8 gauge shell next to a 20 gauge shell, and it would spark a flurry of bad PR for hunters and hunting. The fact that an 8 gauge gun is not being produced right now has nothing to do with demand. Until SAAMI provides regulations on the 8 gauge the manufacturers can not produce one.

I hunt deer in Wisconsin where baiting deer is legal. A very large percentage of hunters (I believe it is over 50% in recent polls) feel that shooting a deer over bait is unethical, and I have no problem what so ever calling someone that shoots a deer over bait an unethical hunter. At this point it is still legal to bait, but very close to or more than half of all deer hunters in Wisconsin are against it. Unfortunately the pro baiting side has powerful (rich) supporters, such as retailers. And it is difficult to get a state represenative to introduce an anti-baiting bill. Baiting deer in Wisconsin is a black eye on the sport and done much to damage the image of hunting in the public's eye. And it's all nice and legal.

Whether we like it or not, hunting is a dying sport. The only way it will last to be passed down to our children, is to regulate ourselves and improve it's image to the public at every opportunity that we can. That includes standing up against something that we feel is wrong whether it is legal or not, especially if there is a high probability it will harm the perception of hunters and hunting in the public's eye.

I'm done

[Ray Masciarella]

Forrest, and if you read my earlier post it had nothing do to with hunting migratory game. All I really wanted was some tips on what to look for when buying a 8 ga to turkey hunt legally. That turned into a discussion about ducks wherein you suggested that I was unethical. If you best argument is that the rule is sound because it's nearly 100 years old, then you don't understand that the reasons for it's enactment don't apply anymore. Again, I respect your opinion but you can't cite a rational basis for prohibiting turkey hunting with an 8 ga. Being unable to do so you choose to attack the character of others just cause they don't listen to you. I'm done with you too.

Now, can anyone give me a tip on what to look for in buying an 8 ga besides the usual?

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella

Forrest, and if you read my earlier post it had nothing do to with hunting migratory game. All I really wanted was some tips on what to look for when buying a 8 ga to turkey hunt legally. That turned into a discussion about ducks wherein you suggested that I was unethical. If you best argument is that the rule is sound because it's nearly 100 years old, then you don't understand that the reasons for it's enactment don't apply anymore. Again, I respect your opinion but you can't cite a rational basis for prohibiting turkey hunting with an 8 ga. Being unable to do so you choose to attack the character of others just cause they don't listen to you. I'm done with you too.

Now, can anyone give me a tip on what to look for in buying an 8 ga besides the usual?

I honestly don't think you have read any of my posts. Actually you were the one who brought up the topic of migratory bird hunting and the question of ethics in your very first post, and I have never once attacked the character of you or of anyone on this board, please point out where I did so and I will apologize. If you want to use your antique Parker with traditional loads for turkey go nuts, enjoy it.

The only problem I have with the entire 8 gauge issue is the possibility of a newly manufactured gun that is capable of throwing a huge payload of the new super shots at a range we have not seen before. Yes, having a shotgun that can kill a turkey at rifle ranges is a rational basis for prohibiting turkey hunting with an 8 gauge. And no, my own personal opinion is that rifles should not be used for turkeys. Did that clear it up for you?

It seems like you had your own idea of were this thread should go from the beginning and are getting defensive to the point of saying I am name calling and attacking your character because I disagree. Which I honestly don't think we disagree that much, it sounds like we are pretty much on the same page, I could care less if you use your Parker for turkeys, and it sounds like you have no intention of calling for overturning the Federal ban.

Anyway...hope you find the gun you are looking for. I know Puglisi's usually has some 8 gauges for sale, but it's been awhile since I've looked at his site. I wish I would have seen the Julia auction a bit earlier, it sounds like some really nice guns went for a great price. If you find a nice one, post some good pictures. Good luck

[Dollar Grade]

The larger than 10 gauge law is about as useful as a duck plug for a SxS !!!

It was the repeaters, loss of habitat and punt guns (in that order) that reduced the duck number.

Duckin' in MI,
Kurt

[Ray Masciarella]

Forrest: You're right. You didn't say "Ray, you're unethical". You did say that hunting turkey with a rifle is unethical even thought it's legal. I guess I took that to mean hunting them with a 8 ga (legally) would also be unethical since you object to the use of 8 ga's under any circumstances. You also state that hunting deer over bait is unethical, which is also legal in some places. You have the right to call anyone you wish "unethical" but I don't see how we can have an honest discussion when doing so. I just don't think I'm unethical if following the rules. So if it was I who was being too sensitive, I owe you the apology.
As I said, people of goodwill can disagree over the policy. My post yesterday had nothing to do with the duck ban. I was merely looking for tips in buying a 8 ga. I do support lifting the ban cause it's out lived its purpose. The problem is that the left-wing fascist regulators have some sportsmen afraid to rationally talk about it in fear of being called unehtical. That's the way it works. If there is no rational argument for keeping the reg, just demonize those who support lifting the ban. Call them "unethical", or maybe even "baby duck killers". Whatever it takes so that us sportsmen will behave and follow their instructions. When we start disparaging each other, then they have us right where they want us.
It's an interesting topic. There are those who support the ban but I wish they did cause it actually accomplished something rather then out of fear we might upset the minority tree-hugger bunch. Sportsmen can't accomplish anything if we are silenced by the fear that they will take something else from us if we speak up.
Anyway, no hard feelings, right? My challenge is find to an 8 ga I can afford and figure out where to get some ammo!

[Bill Murphy]

Forrest, the amount of shot the eight gauge throws is not even related to this discussion. Nitro Cartridge Company sells a 3 ounce ten gauge load that throws more shot at a turkey than any eight gauge I own. My biggest eight, nitro proved at 2 1/2 ounces in a 3 3/4" shell is a good half ounce short of the Nitro Cartidge turkey load. Ray, you could have bought your new eight at Julias.

[Dean Romig]

What masochist would even consider shooting a 3 oz. ten guage shell in a modern gun? (nobody would shoot them in a vintage gun, I'm sure) I think shooting an 8 ga. Parker would be some fun and at something like 15 lbs. would absorb the vast majority of felt recoil. I say "have at it" to those who wish to use an old 8 ga. for hunting, where legal of course. Somehow I don't think I'd like to lug one through the grouse woods though

[Dean Romig]

There are two 8 ga. parkers on Julia's "did not sell - make an offer" listing.

[Ray Masciarella]

Thanks, Dean. I didn't know they were no sales. I'll have to check them out again. You seem to know a lot about min wall thickness. Are the specs the same for 8 ga's, ie min .035?

[Dean Romig]

Honestly, I know little about 8 ga. guns and the kind of pressures they produce or the min. wall thickness required to be considered safe.