Sould it be illegal to hunt with 8 gauge?

[J.B. Books]

Perhaps you can make the argument that 8ga and larger shotguns should be allowed for turkey hunting once non-toxic shot is mandated for all hunting. Sadly I think that day is coming.

[Milton Starr]

Now i havnt read all the pages of this thread but this what i think

The 8 ga was outlawed because wtih LEAD shot and a open choke like a modified and large 3 oz loads killed many many ducks so they made them laws of 1918 around lead shot basically .butr since lead has been outlawed the 8 ga shoul be reinstated it's only fair .Because a 8 ga with steel shot will not o what them old lead shot loads from 70 years back wold do .And in most states you can unt turkey or other game with a 8ga, im from Ga and we dont have a maximum gauge we have a minimal gauge 20 ga for big game deer,turkey,bear etc .

Brother Paul Harm is right as far as Michigan regs are concerned- it is the Federal reg. that outlawed the 8 gauge gun. Apples to eggplants here- but you can legally use the big "Super-8" on any legal non-migratory game bird in proper season here, you can also use a scoped .300 Win. Magnum rifle for squirrels and rabbits or varmints and vermin, even in the "shotgun only" deer hunting area known as Zone Three by our DNR.

I think an element of practicality might enter the picture. There may have been a few 10 ga. repeaters (the Winchester lever action shotguns) back around 1895-1920, but the 8 gauge shotguns were basically either a single or a double barrel gun- so let's say, for the sake of spirited discussion, a Chesapeake Bay market hunter who added to his income during the waterfowling season used an 8- open choked and with "St. Ouis 3's" lead shot-not cheap to shoot, even reloading- he guides a client who has a Win. M1897 pump- 6-7 shots, shells way cheaper than his 8 ga., easier gun to handle--durable, good pointing for that style of shooting-

What was the national waterfowling picture in 1912-13 when the Weeks Mclean bill passed and the 8 gauge was banned? By then the M 1897, the Browning A-5, some with ten shot extensions, were in usage by market hunters, and the Model 12 was right around the corner- From reading Nash Buckingham's write-up, I guess many of the 8 and 10 bores were used by sportsmen, some of whom (possibly like Nash and his friend Eltinge Warner) wanted to see repeaters banned for waterfowling)--

Today with the National situation as I surmise it: Iraq, Afghanistan, ?? about the economy, the BP Gulf disaster, and the list goes on- to correct a possible error made back in 1912 to allow a small % of the duck hunting fraternity free choice in the gauge and type of weapon they might wish to use- sorry Boys, I am all for the 8 gauge for those who own them and want to use them, any more than a fine Hammer Parker 10 bore or any other vintage firearm that recalls the "good old days" to some of us- But I just don't see it happening.

But rest assured- if I should come across a brother waterfowler in some secluded spot using a 8 ga., even with lead loads- his secret will be safe with me- Maybe he'll have the good taste to be using a Parker!!

[Milton Starr]

could get rocky mountain to headstamp 8 ga hulls with 10 ga . since most people havnt seen a 10 ga even modern they (game warden) we say okay your free . it's no worse than people using a 12 ga and taking 3-5 shots to kill a bird

[Phil C]

I would encourage anyone that lives in a state that outlaws hunting with an 8 gauge, and would like to hunt with one to go find out how to change the law.
I did this last year and went before the Arizona Game Commission on October 9 2009. I found everyone at the Game and Fish department to helpful and encouraging. I was able to actually have my W C Scott & Son as well as my 10 gauge DH Parker brought into the Commission meeting by two Game and fish Department employees. I was able to present my case, as to why we should be able to use an 8 gauge for hunting, and why it has made no since to outlaw the use for the legal harvest of game. I was please at the end to hear the decision. That the Game Commission voted unanimously to allow the hunting of Game in AZ with an 8 gauge. Unfortunately the ruling is in limbo awaiting the Governor’s Regulatory Review Council. They need to place their stamp of approval on the change. We currently have a moratorium on all rule making in AZ. Once this moratorium is lifted the rule will be submitted and should be approved. This of course has no change to Federal laws. That said, one step at a time. If all 50 states approved the 8 gauge use, this might have an impact on the ability to change the Federal law.
I would be happy to send anyone the written argument I used before the commission if you let me know. It is several pages and I do not want to post it here unless I received prior approval.

[Milton Starr]

what is also important is for all of us and more people is to email someone like remington,mossberg,browing or ...benelli-stoeger nad ask for them to make either a 10 or 8 ga. i think if you could push the 10 ga on them then after a while we would see some 8 ga/ I shoot a 10ga because 12 ga shells feel wierd in the palm of my hand . i think the govement would say why make it legal when no company even produces a 8g a and as of now there are only 4 models of 10 ga in procution compared to hundreds of models of 12 ga

[King Brown]

That's about all we'd need to set us back 50 years, Ray. The issue isn't six ducks, shooting turkeys with rifles, fair chase, constitutional change. It's public acceptance. We're barely tolerated now.

Our sport is polluted with ginks who think bigger is better, and if there's a bigger gauge the ginks will have them whether they can shoot them well or not. Consider the noise, unwanted sound.

For years I've watched these lads who blithely as the Bobbsey Twins close with their barrages where I've hunted with 12s for more than 60 years. For what? A bigger bang, a bigger gun, a fanciful notion?

More galling is that I've yet to see a cannonading gunner who shot any better than those with traditional gauges. Each has a right to pleasure as long as it does not infringe the pleasure of others.

[Dean Romig]

Very well said King. "It's public acceptance. We're barely tolerated now." If for no other reason, "public acceptance" must be a primary consideration in all that we do with guns today, especially in less than rural places.

[King Brown]

Dean, unfortunately public acceptance doesn't mean evidence-based reasoning, as Ray suggests. Publics often endorse weird notions. We have to live with what is. As a flier and shooter, I must accommodate majorities for the enjoyment of my pursuits whether it makes sense or not.

[Ray Masciarella]

Fellas, the "public acceptance" argument, which is also flawed, doesn't answer the question I posed. I was wondering if there is a plausible argument that allowing the use of a rifle, and not an 8 ga, really had something to do with "fair chase" when hunting a turkey or any other big game. I wanted to know what I was overlooking. I could think of a plausible reason not to allow a rifle as they are more dangerous because of the range. Hunters can get killed by a stray bullet a lot faster then stray shot. I think the rule is irrational until somebody can explain the error of my thoughts.

Now, the new "public acceptance" question. Do you really think the anti-hunters really care what weapon is used to take a turkey? They don't want us hunting at all. Period!!!!!!
I don't think they could even explain the difference between a rifle and an 8 ga. We are not "acceptable" to them because we use a 12 ga. They think we're terrible just for hunting.

"Acceptance" depends on where you live. I'm down south. Hunters are generally accepted here. In fact, I don't know of a true anti-hunter around here. Some choose not to hunt but they're not against it. Heck, around here you don't even need a hunting license to hunt hogs (except on public land). Thus, I think hunting is not "unaccepted" by the public or there would be a rule requiring a license. Certainly the legislature would like to require a license so it could raise more money but the "public" won't allow it!

Each state should do what it thinks best. The rule isn't valid just because it's 92 years old! In my view, there is no valid reason to disallow use of an 8 ga in light the of the other regulations in place. I'm openminded so I hope someone can give me some rational basis for the rule-even if I think my argument is better. I think if we really thought about what real purpose the rule serves now we'd find that it serves no purpose. Just throwing around phases like "fair chase" and "public acceptance" without really explaining how it is "fair" or "acceptable" doesn't get to the crux of the matter. How would it really set us back 50 years? Anti-hunters still won't like us. Hunters in general would probably be supportive with proper regulation. The rest of the world (the majority) probably wouldn't even care or understand.

Please believe me that I respect everyone's views. It's a interesting subject. I must have too much time on my hands by worrying about it.

I do agree with Bruce. It's not likely this rule can be changed if for no other reason that the gun owning, freedom loving members of this forum can't even agree on the subject.



I realize that folks in New England, for example, my not be as accepting. In the real world I don't think the average person really cares if we hunt or not. They have more important things to worry about. The problem is that the extremists on both sides of the issue get all the press leading everyone to believe there is great disagreement on the subject.

King, I don't think bigger is better. I just think it would be fun to hunt a turkey with a 8 ga and no one can give me a sound reason why it shouln't be allowed. Again, think of the reason they were outlawed in the first place, ie to stop market hunters from killing everything in sight. Is that true today? Of course not. Other regulations that came in effect later takes care of that problem, ie bag limits. If the reason the rule was enacted is no longer a factor, why have the rule? Why should I be punished for the sins of my great-grandfather?