1st Phase of GH Restoration

[B. Dudley]

Oscars articles are in The double gun journal spring 2003, summer 1997 and Fall 1997.

I can only speak to what I do in rust bluing for plugging the bores. I use 36" lengths of 5/16" threaded rod through the bore with a rubber stopper on each end (with a hole drilled through them) and a washer/nut on each end holding the stoppers in tight. I buy the stoppers from my local Lowes. The hole in the rubber stoppers is drilled also 5/16" so the fit is tight around the rod. But there is enough still there for air to vent. I can always see bubbles coming out when in the water. The amount of water that is allowed in is minimal. I use the Mark Lees Express Blue which is very fast acting. I can do a set of barrels from white metal to finished in 5 hours. So I have no worry about water in the bores causing any issues. When I pull the plugs there is just water droplets in the bores which clean out nicely. However, if you are doing a slow rust process taking many days, I would not recommend allowing any water to sit in the bores.

I personally believe that once anyone uses Mark Lees, they will never go back to anything else. Especially if you are doing a lot of barrels. The results are just fantastic and the working time is so quick.

I can only speak in regards to anything from the point of my own experiences and I would not expect anyone to take it as law.

For etching, you will want to plug with separate stoppers (rubber or wood) that will not allow anything in.

[Autumn Daze]

I wonder what Brad uses for a bluing solution?

[winplumber]

Originally Posted by Dave Suponski

I wonder what Brad uses for a bluing solution?

Give him a call and ask ,or maybe he may chime in .

[wayne goerres]

You need to coat the insides with Lacquer. Then plug your bores for the acid bath. You may not like the results if you don't. I learned this from personal experience. You can remove it with acetone when your are through.

[Derek Iske]

Wayne and Brian, thank you for the information. I was considering doing a lacquer coat on the inside, just was not sure how much of a pain it was to get off. Also wasn't sure if you can get it all off.

Brain, that is a great idea for the rubber plugs. Most likely being a combination of that and lacquer.

[Derek Iske]

Thanks for the recommendation of the express blueing but I am trying to keep this a traditional method. I will be using Pilkingtons solution.

[Jawjadawg]

Originally Posted by Derek Iske

Thanks for the recommendation of the express blueing but I am trying to keep this a traditional method. I will be using Pilkingtons solution.

I've found this thread, for myself, to be a little thought provoking. Wouldn't the "traditional method" involve dissolving nails and concocting your own home brew? What I'm trying to figure out is regarding the question of "Does it matter how you make the barrel rust, or is rust really just...rust?"

Brian Dudley's mention of Mark Lee's Express formula really caught my attention. Five hours to completion is really impressive, so I started doing my own research.

It appears that every gun maker had their own secrets regarding what went in to making their own rust formulas. Those proprietary formulas, combined with temperature and humidity levels, were what determined the amount of time barrels sat to rust between cardings. Obviously, shorter rust times resulted in faster production - a common goal of every manufacturing outfit. In reading Mark Lee's website, it is very interesting to note that Winchester had a process which would only require barrels to be in the box for 7-15 minutes at a time. Don't you know they were guarding those secrets like the Colonel's Chicken Recipe.

Isn't Pilkington's just a modern alternative solution that was commercially developed by Phil Pilkington to mimic a portion of the traditional rust blue method? My guess is that when Pilkington's hit the market that there were many gunsmith's who shunned it initially, until later discovering that it too would produce an aesthetically pleasing finish that was also durable. It works, and so the formula gained adoption.

[Derek Iske]

Originally Posted by will evans

I've found this thread, for myself, to be a little thought provoking. Wouldn't the "traditional method" involve dissolving nails and concocting your own home brew? What I'm trying to figure out is regarding the question of "Does it matter how you make the barrel rust, or is rust really just...rust?"

Brian Dudley's mention of Mark Lee's Express formula really caught my attention. Five hours to completion is really impressive, so I started doing my own research.

It appears that every gun maker had their own secrets regarding what went in to making their own rust formulas. Those proprietary formulas, combined with temperature and humidity levels, were what determined the amount of time barrels sat to rust between cardings. Obviously, shorter rust times resulted in faster production - a common goal of every manufacturing outfit. In reading Mark Lee's website, it is very interesting to note that Winchester had a process which would only require barrels to be in the box for 7-15 minutes at a time. Don't you know they were guarding those secrets like the Colonel's Chicken Recipe.

Isn't Pilkington's just a modern alternative solution that was commercially developed by Phil Pilkington to mimic a portion of the traditional rust blue method? My guess is that when Pilkington's hit the market that there were many gunsmith's who shunned it initially, until later discovering that it too would produce an aesthetically pleasing finish that was also durable. It works, and so the formula gained adoption.

What I meant as traditional was a method of rusting, boiling, carding and etching. However after reading articles, Parker had an extremely unique way of finishing the barrels. It is possible to replicated however, I have already invested in the way to complete my barrels such as Oscar Gaddy described in his Finishing of Damascus Steel - Part 2 article. Truly traditional involves using chemicals that are extremely dangerous.

Since slow rusting is slow... I will not be able to do, for example, lets say 16 cycles in one sitting. One thing the articles never discuss is how/when to pause the process and start it back up.

[Parker Bachelder (Brad's Profile)]

I will chime in, I can't resist it after spending the last five days with my son, rusting and carding Damascus. Slow rust bluing"blackening" is a no brainer process that can easily be done with several comercially available products. The secret to slow rust is prep, patina,and color. Damascus finishing is a totally different animal. I make all of my own formulas and they vary greatly with the type of steel that we are working with.
Dr. Gady provided a very good account of the original method. What he did not reveal were all of the control considerations, what to do when things don't work.It took me ten years to fully understand these controls. I would suggest that you follow Oscars instructions closely and there is a good chance it will work. I would not incorporate the Lacquer step. Logwood is a very critical step.

Brad

[Ruff Hunter]

For Damascus barrels, you will need to cut the Pilkington's to 50% strength with water. Using the product at full strength may result in a rough finish as the acid will etch the iron strands.