Denser patterns

[J.B. Books]

Originally Posted by wayne goerres

I was using one of Charlie's favorite loads. 1/8oz no fours 19grs Red Dot in a Remington hull cut down to 2 7/8" with a Rem SP 10 wad and a Win 209 primer. I am not sure about the chokes on the gun. I don't have anything to measure them with properly. Still pretty limited on what you can get your hands on to load with in this area. Would 7625 be a better choice for hunting loads than Red Dot.

Yes I think 7625 would be a better choice for a heavier load. 32 grains of 7625 with 1 1/4 ounce is a Sherman Bell load that develops 6700 psi and 1170 fps. I'd feel comfortable upping it to 1 3/8 ounce but that is just me.

There is a lower pressure published load for Longshot powder using 1 3/8 ounce of Nice Shot in the Federal Hull. 8800 psi with a velocity of 1335 fps. Remember Nice Shot is loaded to lead recipes adding and additional 1500 psi. In this case you are going from Nice Shot to lead so that should be 1 3/8 of lead moving at 1335 with a pressure of 7300 psi. If it patterns well that would be a good turkey load in a composite barreled short ten.

If the Red Dot is not giving you the pattern you are looking for try 22gr of Green Dot with 1 1/8 ounce. I have used that a lot on clay pigeons. When I really want to reach out and touch crows I used 27gr of Green Dot with 1 1/4 ounce. Alliant has published loads for GD using 29 grains with 1 1/4 ounce in a 3.5" hull, pressure is 8800 psi and velocity 1265. I have shot a lot of them through a twist barrel NH without issue.

Closer is almost always better, but short tens that can pattern in the high 80 and low 90 percent at 40 yards with 1 1/4 ounce loads are very effective beyond that range. However Turkey's are not ducks.

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by Pete Lester

Closer is almost always better, but short tens that can pattern in the high 80 and low 90 percent at 40 yards with 1 1/4 ounce loads are very effective beyond that range. However Turkey's are not ducks.

I patterned one of my short tens at 40yards multiple times- 91/92 percent with lead 4s in both barrels

not that i would shoot at that range - but replicating Charlie's dr. pepper can 70yard test- 5 pellets in the can

this one is not a brush gun

[10 bore]

for my 10 ga turkey loads, i shoot 1 1/2 oz lead 6's, 38 grs bluedot, sp 10 wad, and roll crimp

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by scott kittredge

for my 10 ga turkey loads, i shoot 1 1/2 oz lead 6's, 38 grs bluedot, sp 10 wad, and roll crimp

That is one heck of a load! I can testify by the longbeard I killed dead at about forty yards in 2013. Scott sent me some to try and I still have several left over.

[William Davis]

I have gone as much as 27 grs Green Dot 1 1/4 oz shot. Safe in my Parker 10 but a little too much kick for clays. Dropped to 26 grs GD 1 1/8 oz. If hunting would use the 27 x 1 1/4 for sure.

On relative quickness charts Green Dot looks to be a good substitute for 7625

It's hard to measure 10 chokes but either load throws full choke looking patterns.

William.

[wayne goerres]

I use a over powder card in the bottom of the shot cup to bring the shot level even with the top of the shot cup and then a over shot card and roll crimp. I have also tryed a 6 point crimp.

[10 bore]

try a shot at 40 yds at a 30 circle. count the hits and divide that by the number of pellets in the load. my be you have a gun shooting cylinder choke (45 %). if so that would tell you why you have holes in your pattern. at forty yds you should get 70 % to 90 % on a .030 to .040 of choke out of the short 10 ga.

[Cold Spring]

Here's my opinion; the short 10's such as an Ithaca Super 10 made for high velocity loads with 1-5/8 ounce of lead shot will absolutely flatten a large turkey or predator such as a fox at 60 yards = my personal max based on actual patterning. That's with heavy choking at 45 points or even a touch more and using hard lead 4's (max for turkeys here in PA) or with 2's for foxes and BB's for coyotes. Same for waterfowl using real NICE shot (not bismuth) or with Kent TM that's been mined from Kent factory shells. Sure everyone wants as close a humane shot as possible but if a bird is wounded that second shot is taken at whatever the range happens to be. Now I'm not talking here about light short 10 loads with 1-1/8 or even 1-1/4 ounce of lead, or worse yet, with bismuth for waterfowl. Funny, just yesterday there was a discussion over breakfast on the way to our sporting club, about the merits of the modern practice of shooting fine shot at turkeys and going for the head. The concensus by several long time hunters is, that works well when the bird is called in relatively close, but also that the old timers knew what they were doing by shooting 2's as generally recommended by the period ammo companies for the large birds. Again, 4's are the max allowed for turkeys nowadays here in PA. Our spring season opened on Saturday and two of the buds were showing off cell pics of good gobblers taken the day before with 3-inch 12's and regular 4-shot. Not some modern fad turkey load with a cool sounding name. At least some of the guys are keeping the faith .....

[J. A. EARLY]

Frank,

I don't disagree with a thing you say. I passed on a Super Ten Ithaca last year, and it was a big mistake. Then I saw those brand new old stock Remington high power shells in 1 5/8 at the Southern, and wished I had the gun. What a killer!

But when we are loading the short ten with just 1 1/8 or 1 1/4 for low pressure damascus/twist (which will equal slower speeds, unlike those Remingtons at 1300 fps), my opinion to Wayne is it would be unethical to try to stretch it to 40 and 50 yards. I have not seen a lifter 10 choked at .045 as I said, mostly what I have seen is in the .035 range which will require patterning to find out what it will really do. I say 40 max to be ethical. After that its 50/50 if you can go pick him up. You'll get some, you'll lose some.

I also agree on the 2s for turkeys (long before the days of shooting for the head only where body shots would put them down) and that dead horse is smelly from last year's discussion. The old timers then shot for the base of the neck, putting number 2 shot in the neck, head, and body, or at the whole turkey on the wing. That's why the shell manufacturers put that in the listing of what size to use for different animals.

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Frank Srebro

Funny, just yesterday there was a discussion over breakfast on the way to our sporting club, about the merits of the modern practice of shooting fine shot at turkeys and going for the head. The concensus by several long time hunters is, that works well when the bird is called in relatively close, but also that the old timers knew what they were doing by shooting 2's as generally recommended by the period ammo companies for the large birds. Again, 4's are the max allowed for turkeys nowadays here in PA.

Frank, what do you and your friends consider to be "fine shot"?

4's are the "max allowed", meaning the largest shot size allowed? Wouldn't that have been a wise decision, considering 4's and smaller would allow for a denser pattern than 2's and larger?.... keeping in mind not every turkey hunter uses a gun choked 'extra full' or tighter.