Mid Bead...Rhyme or Reason

[Kevin McCormack]

P.S. - The gauge was cut out of lightweight aluminum stock - sort of like a Chesapeake Bay Blue Crab legal size measuring stick - you can quickly hang it over the muzzle end and it drapes right over the rib to show correct mid-bead placement. Again, this is a FACTORY SPEC. - what Junior down at the gunshop in town later on could be all over the map.

[Researcher]

FWIW, Nash Buckingham specified the rear bead for BoWhoop to be 10-inches from the breech.

[Dean Romig]

It appears that Dave Noreen's 34" Fox guns are the only ones that show any kind of consistancy in mid bead placement showing that Fox measured from the muzzle and may not have used the shooter's physical characteristics in determining where the bead should be placed.... and I don't know if that proves anything.

I don't know if we can draw any conclusions from this exercise and I have never heard of any printed material that discusses the mid bead placement and certainly all those people involved in manufacturing these old guns are long gone. Maybe if someone were to contact a modern manufacturer of double shotguns (Tony Galazan for example) we might get a better understanding.

Hmmm, Just read Kevin's post... that changes everything.

Dave, I'm guessing the tag goes with the gun being auctioned today?

[CSL]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

It appears that Dave Noreen's 34" Fox guns are the only ones that show any kind of consistancy in mid bead placement showing that Fox measured from the muzzle and may not have used the shooter's physical characteristics in determining where the bead should be placed.... and I don't know if that proves anything.

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Dean,
I didn't see where Dave Noreen mentioned anything about 34" Fox's, but he did discuss his four 32" Fox's...

As to Dave's Noreen's question "So, what does any of this prove?"... I'd say it doesn't prove much, except for the mention of his very straight stocked 32" Fox Pigeon Gun having a mid-bead 18-1/4" from the muzzle, which is 2-1/4" further in from his other 32" guns... So it could be that stocks with less DAC & DAH might have middle beads set farther back, at least that's the way it looks on his 32" Fox's, but it's hard to say without seeing all the stock dimensions...

Best, CSL
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[Dean Romig]

Darn... typo on my part...

However, the rear bead set at 10" from breech on Buckingham's #31088 sheds an entirely different light on the discussion. I wonder what Nash Buckingham's criteria was for that request...

[Dean Romig]

Bill, that is probably the prototype for modern pistol sights

Are you saying the two rear beads are gold too?

That's a neat gun, have you done anything in the way of refinishing it at all?

[Bill Murphy]

Dean the two rear beads on the "Gold Hearts" gun are gold and enormous. When shouldered, a pigeon at 26 yards will just fit in between the rear beads. Like any woman, Annie Oakley liked to have her "stuff", including her pigeons, just so. I have not shot the gun with the original 30" barrels because I haven't measured the wall thickness. I have shot the 34" Parker Special Steel barrels plenty. The gold plated Parker trigger doubles occasionally so the old girl has to come apart I guess. I have not experimented to see whether the doubling would stop if I shot heavier loads or switched the selector to "left barrel first". The refinishing consisted of the buttplate and both sets of barrels, that's it. Ken Hurst spent many hours on the buttplate, which was a rusty, pitted, throwaway until he agreed to perform his magic with the file and gravers. Bill Hambridge finished the buttplate and screws just before his disappearance. Timing is everything. The buttplate is a museum piece although Ken somehow refused to specify payment, mentioning our friendship as compensation. Oh well. Dewey Vicknair finished the 30" Damascus barrels just before he quit doing Damascus refinishing as a "price list" item. Again, timing is everything. He managed to nicely redo the Damascus barrels in black and white without removing or disturbing the gold balls. Dewey also did the 34" steel barrels, and quite a job it is, considering what he had to work with. I don't think the gun had always been stored indoors, although the wood and the steel barrels seemed to suffer very little neglect compared to other parts. Even though the entire project was the result of the work of several talented artists, I would not own the gun except for the generousity of PGCA member Daryl Middlebrook, who arranged the exchange of ownership.

[Autumn Daze]

Chris,I you look at my original post you will notice that the VHE 32" gun has the mid bead at 18 3/8" back. That is much further back than the other guns. And its stocked at 2 1/2"DAH. Coincidence? Who knows...

[CSL]

Originally Posted by Dave Suponski

Chris,I you look at my original post you will notice that the VHE 32" gun has the mid bead at 18 3/8" back. That is much further back than the other guns. And its stocked at 2 1/2"DAH. Coincidence? Who knows...

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Dave,
I had a look at my 32" VHE vent/rib Trap last night and it measured very similar to yours with a little higher shooting dimensions at heel = LOP 14-1/8, DAC 1-1/2", DAH 1-3/4, and mid-bead dead on at 18" from muzzle....

Maybe if we had some other shooters here post the stock dimensions of their 32" barreled guns with bead measurement, we would see a consistent pattern with relation to stock height and mid-bead placement?... Would also be interesting to see the differences in mid-bead placement between vent/rib and standard rib same length barrels with similar stock dimensions... Just a thought, and Hope we get some feedback on this...

Best, CSL
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[Double Play]

After reading this entire thread a couple of times I'm not sure if there was a factory standard or not and if there was such a standard where was the measurement taken from. So far it's been suggested the measurement could be from the muzzle, from the breech, and someone suggested measuring from the butt to the bead. I checked three guns last night that letter with double beads and all three measure 18" from the muzzle. Because all three guns have different barrel lengths (26"28"30") I have to assume that it's the relationship of each bead to the other that would be the most important dimension. I like double beads for checking gun mount but find them impractical for shooting as I try to focus on the lead edge of the clay or the head of the bird when making a shot.