Opinions, please.

[C.O.B.]

I don't think takeing a 12 ga framed gun and fitting 34 inch 410 barrels to it makes it a 410 or a 20, 28 ect.

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

Around the year 1900 weren't pigeon and trap guns limited to 8 lbs?

[John Truitt]

Mark

I believe you are correct. I don't know why they limited it. Maybe someone like Dave Noreen or someone else could give us info on why.

[Bill Murphy]

John, I hope you take back the statement you made about "pointing fingers at you". I am not doing that, I won't do that, and I haven't done that. I have made it clear that I respect your gun building and I am just clearing the air. Everyone knows about your guns and I don't need to point fingers. Please let me know that you really didn't mean what you said.

[Bill Murphy]

By the way, you don't have to go to Dave Noreen to learn that the eleven pound limit in the eighties was for handling characteristics, not shot load or drams of powder. The later eight pound limit was for the same reason. Nothing has changed in a hundred and twenty years. The heavy gun has the advantage on easy birds. The sactioning organizations stepped in to put an end to unfair advantages from rich guys and gun companies. End of story.

[Bill Murphy]

My eleven pound C Grade hammer gun, made for a Parker company shooter, was made to the exact specifications of the B Grade made for Fred Kimble, another company shooter. Several guns were made by Parker Brothers for other company shooters to the exact same specifications. They were uncommon guns, made to these specifications because they were better pigeon guns than the pigeon guns used by other competitors. No statement is made about this practice except that heavy guns are an advantage.

[John Truitt]

No Murphy,

I meant what I said just as you meant what you said.

IMO you made your point clear. I am making mine clear.

I am done with this. Do what you feel you must.

[Coach]

Gentlemen,

I don't know if my opinion will matter, or change anyone's opinion on the topic, regarding originality or suitability of guns shot in competition. It is just my opinion.

As to originality of specific Parker Guns: The proliferation of custom guns and subsequent modifications to originally manufactured guns, either by Parker or others, is a subject that can be debated to the end of time. I can see that Parker would make a gun to an individuals specification that could amount to just about any practicable combination of frame size, gauge, bore, barrel length, and weight. The specification of an individual may or may not be noted in surviving documention.

As to the configuration of restored Parker Guns: There are restored Parker guns out there that are obviously not done in the manner that would be expected of the factory. I personally own a gun that was in really bad shape and obviously modified by a trap shooter to include porting of the barrels. When I had this gun restored Turnbull I was told that this heinous modification could not be repaired. Who is to say that if Parker had received a request for this type of work on a custom gun wether they would have refused? I personally don't see this as a benefit to the shooter but others might disagree. As I stated up front, this just my opinion.

I would personally not like to be tasked with determing the originality of a Parker Gun, or any other gun, as suitable for competing in any particular shooting venue and I would not like to see the requirement of having letter documentation as a prerequisite to using any particular gun in competition.

[Big Friend Ten (BFT)]

I believe the heavier guns gave an advantage to those who could shoot them well.

[John Truitt]

I think it had more to do with shot loads/ dram equiv/ etc.
Just like they had eliminated the 10 bore from box bird shoots.
Not eliminating weight for handling characteristics.