Rare BHE .410 4/0-frame sighting

[Wild Skies]

I'll take a crack at that one Dean . . . I, too; have read the pin separation is the same on both the 000-frame Parkers and the 0000-frame Parker Reproductions, but I believe there are a couple more dissimilarities than just the frame size stamping on the barrel lugs. Now, I have not had the opportunity to actually measure any of these frames, but from viewing them the 0000-frame Repro barrels appear more "internal" to the frame compared to the 000-frame guns. In addition, the 0000-frame doesn't have the step-down in the barrels as does the 000-frame Parker guns.

[Bill Murphy]

Dean, actually, the 0000 mark on the lug would be there on 00 barrels as well as 0000 barrels. That's just the way the Repro factory marked them. So then it gets complicated. If I am right about the firing pin distance, the 0000 receiver would be different from the 28 gauge 00 receiver. My recollection is that the genuine 0000 receiver has the same pin separation as a factory Parker Brothers 000 .410 receiver. In addition to the different appearance of the breech balls, the pin separation is different on the Repro 00 and the Repro 0000 .410 guns. The pin separation on the 000, and supposedly the 0000, is 13/16". The separation on the 00 frame, whether original Parker Brothers or Repro 28 gauge or .410 on the 28 gauge frame, is 15/16". Now, I am working from memory from when I measured 0000 Repro pin separations that were in the possession of Geoffroy Gournet. Maybe the owner of a 0000 frame BHE or Gournet custom could confirm. I believe I also measured pin separations in 0000 frames when Kevin McCormack and I had a couple of 0000 frame Repros in our display at Baltimore a few years ago.

[Bill Murphy]

Now that some generous posters have provided us with pictures of the real 0000 frame Repros, guys like Greg and Kenny will have a better understanding that you don't need a scale or calipers to identify one. They are just plumb different in outer appearance.

[Wild Skies]

Originally Posted by Bill Murphy

Now that some generous posters have provided us with pictures of the real 0000 frame Repros, guys like Greg and Kenny will have a better understanding that you don't need a scale or calipers to identify one. They are just plumb different in outer appearance.

I had no idea that I didn't understand what I identified as a 0000-frame BHE/DHE engraved Repro was when I started this thread. Thank you for pointing that out, Bill. It just goes to show that you can learn something new here everyday!

[Bill Murphy]

Greg, I know this thread was hard reading, but I think the information has gotten out. I have probably handled more 0000 frame Repros than anyone but Geoffroy and the Skeuses, but have never owned one. When I saw the Mike Weatherby ad in Shotgun News a few decades ago ($16,000), I knew I never would. I wish I could have talked to Paul Dorsa before he sold his.

[Wild Skies]

Originally Posted by Dean Romig

Somebody please correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe I read somewhere that the dimension between firing pin centers of the 0000-frame and the 000-frame are exactly the same and the only thing that makes it a "0000-frame" is the number of zeros stamped on the lug.

It's reported in The Parker Story that the distance between the firing pins of a 000-frame Parker is 13/16", it has also been stated (but not verified) that a 0000-frame Parker Reproduction has this same dimension between the firing pins. Well, on the net today I just happened to come across a couple of pics of a 000-frame Parker and it got me to wondering whether or not they are the same? Take a look at these pics and compare the little nuances and differences . . . the 1st is a 000-frame Parker, the 2nd is a 0000-frame Repro, the 3rd is the Parker again and the 4th and 5th pics are the Repro again. There is a step down of the barrels on a 000-frame Parker which the 0000-frame Repros do not have and it appears that the Repro barrels are more internal to the frame than the 000-frame Parker. What conclusions can we draw from this? It could be: A) The pin separation is not the same, or: B) the frame dimensions across the watertable at the breech and hinge of the Repro are greater than the 000-frame Parker. What do you think? Anyone have 0000-frame Repro that they can measure to verify?

[Bill Murphy]

What many collectors and researchers don't realize is the we are not comparing the 000 frame original Parker .410 frame with the 0000 frame Repro frame. The elephant in the room is the OO frame Repro frame, which is the frame that most .410 Repro Parkers are built on. The 0000 frame Repro is nothing like any other Parker frame, even though frames marked 0000 are incorrectly identified as 0000 frames, they are not, they are Repro 00 frames made for the 28 gauge Repro. The Parker Repro was never made on a 000 frame, no, never. The .410 Repro was made either on the 00 frame or the rare and unusual 0000 frame.

[Bill Murphy]

It's finally time to measure the firing pin separation on the real 0000 frame Repros. I have done it but another measurement would be nice to confirm.

[C.O.B.]

I think trying to compare the reproduction to an original Parker is akin to comparing a CSM Fox to a Philly gun. The repro and the CSM guns are both excellent choices BUT there not the original manufacture and therefore not the same.

[Bill Murphy]

It's finally time to measure the firing pin separation on the real 0000 frame Repros. I have done it but another measurement would be nice. As I recall, it is the same as the original Parker Brothers 000 frame. I may be mistaken.