12 gauge 3" shell introduction.

[Researcher]

Good question. Pretty sure no one left alive knows the answer.

[paul stafford jr]

my 1905 DHE has 30 in barrels and is marked 3 in. chambers, that's why I purchased it, its the only one I have seen.

[Drew Hause]

Wm. Cashmore Pigeon gun

[Researcher]

my 1905 DHE has 30 in barrels and is marked 3 in. chambers, that's why I purchased it, its the only one I have seen.

Parker Bros. generally didn't mark the chamber length on their guns. The later Remington built Parkers were marked as to chamber length. Unless there is information in a PGCA letter to indicate 3 in. chambers, I'd suspect that lengthening the chambers and marking the gun was something done after market.

[OH Osthaus]

If Remington was marking them in the later days, could they be Remington replacements?

is there a repair code on the barrels?

[Researcher]

It is rather "strange" that the ad from Winchester, gives the loads with DuPont Smokeless, New E.C. Improved and New Schultze in grains. They were all bulk smokeless powders and should have been given in drams. Fanning's load with Infallible, a dense smokeless powder, was correctly given in grains. It was actually a rather light load, as the loading companies offered up to 28-grains of Infallible pushing 1 1/4 ounces of shot from 2 3/4 inch and longer 12-gauge hulls.

[Drew Hause]

This is the best conversion I've come up with, but may not be exact

..............'E.C.'......DuPont…....Schultz…..... ..Ballistite....Infallible

3 dram....42...........36.5............42........... ...24.............21 grains
3 1/4…...45.5.........41...............45............. .26.............23
3 1/2…...49............43...............48............ ..28.............25

http://books.google.com/books?id=97d...AJ&pg=PA57&lpg
http://books.google.com/books?id=Wv0...J&pg=PA446&lpg

Note that the Winchester loads include "New E.C. Improved" and "New Schultz"

[Researcher]

That Winchester ad looks to be from 1906 by the date code at the bottom, well after Capt. A.W. Money had the blow up at Oakland Park, NJ, and Schultze and E.C. went to become products of Laflin & Rand. By 1905 L & R were advertising "New Schultze" and "New E.C. Improved". By January 1907, Laflin & Rand's "New E.C. Improved" and "New Schultze" were being advertised as a product of E.I. du Pont de Nemours Powder Company. Can we say monopoly??

[charlie cleveland]

very interesting stuff here..seems to be the start of shooters useing heavier loads..i like the guns with the early 3 inch chambers.. almost got me a 3 inch 16 ga shell a while back.....charlie

[Researcher]

Forget the chronology I started out with for shell lengths growing in the late 1890s. I was working in the beginnings of smokeless powder shotshells.

Check this out from the 1880 Union Metallic Cartridge Co. catalogue --