California bans all lead ammo for all hunting

[Hammer Gun]

Unfortunately the legislators, that sign these bills into law are egged on by special interest groups with deep pockets, a lot of the time these legislators don't have a clue as to the ramifications of what they are putting into law, that said, one of these days they will pass a bill that will come back to bite them in the ass. Gary

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by Gary Carmichael Sr

Unfortunately the legislators, that sign these bills into law are egged on by special interest groups with deep pockets, a lot of the time these legislators don't have a clue as to the ramifications of what they are putting into law, that said, one of these days they will pass a bill that will come back to bite them in the ass. Gary

the trouble with that hope Gary is that like so many states - New York and Illinois are examples as well as California - the politics are driven by large urban areas. every rural legislator can vote against a bill and it will still pass.

we in upstate NY have not had representation in the US Senate since the 1950's.

I do not see things changing

BTW - the health danger of lead in game - as a hazard to hunters - referred to by Moonbeam Brown, has been out there for years. One was published by an anti hunter whose "research" was not accepted by the scientific community.

That "study" was conducted by a Dr. William Cornatzer, a dermatologist from Bismarck, North Dakota used a high-definition CT scan and claimed to find lead in 60 % of the venison sampled (donated to food banks). unless he only sampled meat with bullet holes, that alone should give pause to a thinking person. The food bank program was temporarily halted, the "study" reviewed, and donations freely accepted again.

There was another published in the UK by a group represented by universities such as Cambridge and the Royal Society for the Protection of Birds. Remember, in the UK game meat is sold to the public.

But it gives the left something to quote, the media something to publish and the sheep something to follow.

[wayne goerres]

We can only hope.

[King Brown]

I'm coming around to the lead ban. With two bald eagle nests on my property, watching two new ones every year and knowing these magnificent birds are scavengers, I'm going to have to find a non-lead solution to killing vermin.

Every year in several nearby places where I hunt from a blind, bald eagles keep a close eye on my activity while sometimes soaring fairly low or perching on snaggy dead trees. Anything that swims off before my dog gets there, or falls at distance from my decoys, is taken by eagles. That's whyI shoot non-toxic.

But what about the raccoon populations I'm trying to lower with the .22 as they try to invade my vineyard protected somewhat by an electric fence? I have been heaving them over a cliff near the shore, hoping the eagles don't find them. Or feral cats that don't last long because they take rabbits from snares? I'm going to become an angel! No lead.

[todd allen]

Anyone with a fax machine and a letterhead can issue a "report" with any conclusion they choose.
In the real world, lead in hunting cartridges is a statistical zero.
We should be more concerned with why man made climate change killed off the dinosaurs.

[brian randolph]

Like many laws these people pass, they have not thought out the consequences. Kind of like Obamacare.

[Kensal Rise]

Lead shot poses absolutely NO danger to wildlife as an ingestible. Period. And recent research has proven it. But now, the liberal idiots have established this "danger" as holy writ, and thus unassailable. It is simply more proof that The Big Lie, told often enough, becomes truth.

[King Brown]

Kensal, provide sources recent research and save me worrying, please. I killed a couple skunks with the .22 last week and went to work on the property. When I came back to dispose of them a bald eagle lifted powerfully with a skunk in its claws. I'm one of the idiots who believe lead in the diet isn't good. I'm leery that all the anti-lead papers were written by liberals!


PS---Following Sherman Bell's injunction of finding out for myself, I googled "ingested lead and raptors." Every source, state and federal, cited mortality from ingested lead in raptors in Arizona, Virginia, California, Minnesota, Montana, France, Spain, including "death from one lead shot" in bald eagles. I'll leave to you the identity of which sources are liberal or conservative but I'm a new convert until shown evidence otherwise.

Regards, King

[todd allen]

Originally Posted by King Brown

Kensal, provide sources recent research and save me worrying, please. I killed a couple skunks with the .22 last week and went to work on the property. When I came back to dispose of them a bald eagle lifted powerfully with a skunk in its claws. I'm one of the idiots who believe lead in the diet isn't good. I'm leery that all the anti-lead papers were written by liberals!


PS---Following Sherman Bell's injunction of finding out for myself, I googled "ingested lead and raptors." Every source, state and federal, cited mortality from ingested lead in raptors in Arizona, Virginia, California, Minnesota, Montana, France, Spain, including "death from one lead shot" in bald eagles. I'll leave to you the identity of which sources are liberal or conservative but I'm a new convert until shown evidence otherwise.

Regards, King

It requires a gizzard for an animal to break down lead, in it's ingestion process. Otherwise, it just passes thru.
Eagles don't have a gizzard.

[Hammer Fan]

Originally Posted by King Brown

Kensal, provide sources recent research and save me worrying, please. I killed a couple skunks with the .22 last week and went to work on the property. When I came back to dispose of them a bald eagle lifted powerfully with a skunk in its claws. I'm one of the idiots who believe lead in the diet isn't good. I'm leery that all the anti-lead papers were written by liberals!


PS---Following Sherman Bell's injunction of finding out for myself, I googled "ingested lead and raptors." Every source, state and federal, cited mortality from ingested lead in raptors in Arizona, Virginia, California, Minnesota, Montana, France, Spain, including "death from one lead shot" in bald eagles. I'll leave to you the identity of which sources are liberal or conservative but I'm a new convert until shown evidence otherwise.

Regards, King

The use of lead shot is irrelevant to the recovery of the bald eagle population. One simply has to look at the numbers put out by the U.S. fish and wildlife regarding the bald eagle population. Unfortunately, I can not link to the data page since the USFW webpage is down due to the government shutdown, but it is easy enough to check out once it is back up.

Bald eagles are thriving, and the population has been steadily increasing since the ban of DDT in 1972. In fact, if I really wanted to throw a wrench in your argument, I would point out that the RATE of increase in the bald eagle population has actually gone DOWN since the ban of lead shot for migratory waterfowl was put into place in 1991. I don't want you to believe me though, check out the numbers for yourself. Having someone tell you you are wrong does not change opinions, coming to that conclusion on your own, by doing your own research is the only way that change takes place.

The only relevant data in this entire issue is the annual population count of bald eagles. You will find the use (or ban) of lead shot is statistically irrelevant to the change in those numbers.

The bald eagle is continued to be used as a reason to ban lead shot because the activists know that is a sympathetic symbol that can sway public opinion, regardless of what the facts actually say. The use of individual, isolated cases of a raptor ingesting lead shot is used to build an argument to ban all lead shot, even though those cases are statistically irrelevant. They are used instead to make an emotional argument.


Here is the link to the U.S. fish and wildlife data, once the government is back up:

http://www.fws.gov/midwest/eagle/pop.../chtofprs.html