Chokes Revisited (and Revisited, and Revisited...)

[Reggie B]

Would someone please just tell me what chokes I need to be an excellent shooter!!

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

The late, great Michael McIntosh once wrote in a magazine article that, due to the improvements in ammunition (plastic shot cups and progressive burning powders) , choke boring is obsolete today. He was a great double gun writer and enthusiast but I have always suspected he occasionally wrote things to see what kind of "fallout" would occur.

Choke boring is certainly not obsolete, just ask pigeon shooters, crow shooters, dove hunters, turkey hunters, etc. I played the registered sporting clays game for over twenty years. I began by thinking I needed to swap screw-in chokes to match the station's presentations. I worked my way up to AA class, while at the same time searching for just the right gun. A Perazzi MX8 trap gun came my way, choked full and full. I swapped the buttstock to one more suitable for sporting, and had the chokes opened to .020" and .020"(M and M). I soon punched my way into M class shooting that gun, some 13 years ago. I still shoot it at sporting, though I no longer pursue the tournament "circuit", and have never questioned my choice. IMO, tight chokes will make a better shot out of you, all else being equal. Dust promotes self confidence, chips do not. Self confidence helps you get into the "zone".

Stan, and others, I don't doubt the veracity of the many comments about tight chokes and shooting clays, but my original post was focused on upland bird hunting. If the "smoke" so often cited equals an exploded bird with ruined meat, that doesn't build any confidence in me that I can bring home birds worthy of a good meal (and not waste something I consider precious).

Please don't get me wrong, I am not disagreeing with the statements about tight chokes and their relationship to promoting good shooting habits on clays. When you're in classic woodcock cover and you are able (not always the case) to raise the gun on a bird about to helicopter away at maybe 15 yards, give me open chokes. I might get the bird and in doing so, not ruin the meat (although any choke with a direct hit at close range is bad news for the night's dining).

And, if using open chokes was a remedy for poor shooting, the vast majority of guns offered to the public would have them, don't you think? Why has the standard choking on field guns evolved away from full/full to something more like ic/mod?

As I read Stan's post it also reminds me of a caveat I forgot to make at the outset -- my choke recommendations don't include the .410. I'll take Stan's recommendations on best chokes to use on doves.

I should also note that although I have come up with what I think might be the best choking for upland guns over a range of game, I very often shoot original condition guns that have tight chokes and am not willing to alter them out of respect for their originality.

[Bill Murphy]

Although I prefer real tight chokes for the fun factor, occasionally I will shoot a round of sporting clays with a 16 or 20 gauge Parker with improved cylinder and modified chokes. I am then amazed at how well I shoot guns that are not equipped with my preferred tight chokes.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Reggie Bishop

Would someone please just tell me what chokes I need to be an excellent shooter!!

I know one is not supposed to answer rhetorical questions, but I think this is actually a good one. However, I'm not an excellent shooter, but a hunter who tries to take shots that I can cleanly make at birds that I dearly love.

[Woodcock survey]

Also read the article by McIntosh and experimented on a pattern plate and found light choke of 3 to 7 thou provided a woodcock and grouse killing pattern out to 40 yards with 7/8 oz. in the 20 and 1 oz. in the 16.
Most places i hunt seeing a bird at 40 yards is not probable. Most shots are from 15 to 30 yards. On a few occasions i have made clean kills at 40 to 45 yards on both grouse and woodcock and found 3 to 6 pellet strikes in the body cavity.
I have come to the conclusion over the years that a shotgun pattern is a random hope you throw in the air and it will do what it will on that attempt and not repeat that again. They are like snowflakes, no 2 alike and if you point it well it will get the job done.
Same gun ,shell ,bird and shot one stone dead the next the chase is on, no accounting for it by any quantifiable means.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Daniel Carter

I have come to the conclusion over the years that a shotgun pattern is a random hope you throw in the air... (excerpted)

Daniel, well said. This may go on my gravestone.

[Woodcock survey]

If needed permission is granted for your use. Thank you.

[mobirdhunter]

Originally Posted by Daniel Carter

If needed permission is granted for your use. Thank you.

Great -- thank you...my wife may start the stone any day now.

[Joe from MO]

I keep it simple, and try to use a gun that is choked for what I expect to see while hunting, if I expect mostly close shooting, I like a IC/M choked gun, if distant shooting M/F. That said, sometimes the birds don't agree with my expectations and instead of close tight cover shots, all I get is long open field shots all day.

Turkeys are about the only bird where I know F/F will work just fine.

Blind hunting ducks over the stool, I really like a LM/IM setup if I'm using steel. Used that for years out of a Citori with good results.

[todd allen]

Originally Posted by Stan Hillis

The late, great Michael McIntosh once wrote in a magazine article that, due to the improvements in ammunition (plastic shot cups and progressive burning powders) , choke boring is obsolete today. He was a great double gun writer and enthusiast but I have always suspected he occasionally wrote things to see what kind of "fallout" would occur.

I knew MM, and remember him saying that.
I invited him to a private pigeon shoot, and told him we could test that "choke boring is obsolete" theory on a 30 bird race.
I offered to buy his birds even, but told him there would be some money up on the outcome. It never happened.
MM knew his stuff on shotguns though, and was a great gunwriter.