non-toxic shot and parkers

[Kensal Rise]

Gentlemen:
The wisdom from you all is well-stated and prescient. However, regarding JB's prediction that classic doubles will suffer value depreciation due to non-tox, I must demur.

There is more than enough private land to take your Parker hunting. Also shooting preserves are on the rise. Either welcomes lead. So do a host of sporting clays courses... which is where most of my guns get the most use.

So... unless the Fed Fairies ban lead ammunition altogether, I believe the cognoscente will still see sporting value in good double guns. Here's hoping anyway.

Best, Kensal

[Big D]

The preserve that I hang out at reguires steel/non tox, because the land is mortgaged, and the bank didn't want their asset (the land) "ruined" by lead shot. Fortunately, they are not enthusiastic about enforcing the ban when they see a nice gun being brought out

[Double Lab]

Gentlemen,
Lead in the environment such as pellets shot from a gun are INERT. They cause no problems, do no damage and "poison" nothing. I have posted here before that my gun club is located on the city of Baltimore's watershed, water supply impoundment. We deposit tons of lead every year and have it tested every time we mine the lead for reclamation. After 55 some odd years of shooting on these grounds, there has been no damage to the environment, not one indicator of lead leaching into the watertable. Baltimore is known for having some of the best water quality in the country. They have not been successful in banning firearms thanks to the 2nd amendment so they go about it by slowly banning the ammo that we use. Question authority my friends- they know not what they do.

[J.B. Books]

Daryl I believe what you say about lead to be true. You are fortunate your gun club remains operational in that location. One of the oldest if not the oldest trap field/club in the United States was in Exeter NH on town land bordering the town resevoir. The club remains but trap shooters were forced to non-tox shot only by the town many years ago and the club no longer shoots trap today. Other clubs in NH have been affected, Pelham, where the NH State Shoot is held was forced to close two fields out of 9 after a letter was sent to the club jointly signed by the head of NH Environmental Services and NH Fish & Game when it was found those fields drop zones were in a wetland and if they didn't stop legal action would be taken. A lead ban is and will be implemented incrementally, first it was waterfowl, then it was federal lands, then hunting birds on federal depredation permits, shot drop zones in wetlands (all these things have been done) to what I think will eventually be a total lead ban for shotguns for both game and clay birds. It's coming.

PS. a few years ago NASA reported that the ice caps on Mars were shrinking at a rather fast rate, similiar to the shrinkage in ice caps seen on Earth. In spite of the evidence that global warming is happening in our SOLAR system political forces are still pushing a man made global warming agenda hurting our economy and our country. You don't have to have science on your side, you don't have to be correct, you just need a majority of chicken little citizens/voters and politicians who pander to and profit from them to get things like lead shot banned.

PPS. We have become a society obsessed with saving a planet and protecting ourselves from every possible harm real or imagined. Who in the world would have thought we'd consider putting helmets on babies who start to crawl. Just when I thought it couldn't get any more ridiculous. We are a nation of entitled wimps and whiners. Try telling a parent using one of these about lead being inert and not dangerous.

http://moms.today.msnbc.msn.com/_new...-a-helmet?lite

[Double Lab]

Pete,
What we wanted to do at our club is to be proactive and establish a baseline for Pb in the environment at and around the fields. We have 8 trap, 8 skeet and a 5 stand. So far so good. They claimed that waterfowl were ingesting spent pellets while feeding in the marshes, their gullets ground the Pb pellets thereby making then a lethal meal. If you really think about that scenario it would be like finding a needle in a haystack. I guess if you dumped a 25lb. bag of #4's on the beach they would find it and use it as grit as any bird would. The only birds I have seen die of Pb poisoning succumbed after a well placed load of #4's out of a full choke.

[OH Osthaus]

Originally Posted by Daryl Corona

Gentlemen,
Lead in the environment such as pellets shot from a gun are INERT. They cause no problems, do no damage and "poison" nothing. I have posted here before that my gun club is located on the city of Baltimore's watershed, water supply impoundment. We deposit tons of lead every year and have it tested every time we mine the lead for reclamation. After 55 some odd years of shooting on these grounds, there has been no damage to the environment, not one indicator of lead leaching into the watertable. Baltimore is known for having some of the best water quality in the country. They have not been successful in banning firearms thanks to the 2nd amendment so they go about it by slowly banning the ammo that we use. Question authority my friends- they know not what they do.

i think I see the problem- you reffer to science and reason,

the new generation of "environmentalists" use lies and panicked emotion

hence your last two statements (unfortunately - I do think at least their leaders know exactly what they are doing - as they say "something wicked this way comes"

[J. A. EARLY]

I have this complete study somewhere and it may easily be found. A few years back while trying to establish a public trap/skeet range, the "hunters" opposed to it came out and cited the dangers from all the lead that would be deposited at the site, even though they had been presented the report. I finally gave up.

The lead bullets from Civil War battlefields, millions still in the ground, all exhibit the white coating that seals the soluable lead. So do all the lead pellets ever shot, over time.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1129074745.htm

http://www.vtnews.vt.edu/articles/2004/11/2004-529.html

[Double Lab]

I rest my case!

[Dennis]

This was an interesting thread and one which affects us all. I think it boils down to the fact that there is a minority of people who simply do not like shooting, hunting, firearms, skeet, trap, or anything whatsoever to do with the shooting sports or shooting in any form. These people have the ear of many politicians who will pass, "feel good", laws knowing they will not do one thing to stop crime, help wildlife or make us any safer. But no matter how much we speak volumes of reason, scientific proof and common sense our voices are not heard. In some areas like California and Illinois losing our rights will be a little faster than in Colorado, Montana or Maine. The pressure is still there though to take away our rights in little increments. Today a win in California. Tomorrow a small win in New Hampshire. You all have the picture I am trying to paint. I am 66 years old now. I can well remember when my brother and I used to take shotguns and .22 rifles on the school bus to go hunting on another farm when we were in high school. I know many of you did the same thing. Try to do that today. Our teachers, knowing we had a pretty good collection of guns asked us to bring in firearms to show the class. Our History teacher, a Marine veteran of Okinawa told his classes that if the S--t hit the fan to contact the Nix brothers as we would provide them with guns. He would most likely be fired today.

Years ago I was a deputy sheriff in Southern California. After being dispatched to take a burglary report from an older woman I drove to her house. I knocked on the door and she yelled for me to enter. After I was inside she noticed I was carrying a firearm as law enforcement officers do. She asked me to remove it and put it back in the vehicle. I told her I would not and could not do that. She became frightened and said she could not give me the report then as firearms scared her. I did my best to explain that it was holstered and would not come out unless I took it out. It could not possibly hurt her. She was unfazed by common sense. Finally I left with a very cursory report and no evidence to solve the crime as she was too frightened to continue. This is the type of citizen we have around us today. Thanks for listening.

[Travis Scott]

Being new to the PGCA i was not sure what to expect when i posted this thread. I just wanted to than all of you for your advice and opinions. I found them all very helpful! I am very quickly becoming adicted to this forum, and i am already looking for my next Parker. Thank you all for responding.