Ithaca SBT

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, no ATA birds shot by your guy from 1928 to 1940. However, I located the original order for your gun. It was part of a John Boa order for the Grand American, that included 18 single trap guns as well as many NIDs. Beeson, from Tippecanoe City, Ohio, is the guy that received the guns near the site of the Grand, so Boa wouldn't have to transport them back and forth over the Canadian border. Boa was a Canadian and a volume Ithaca dealer. Many different people were mentioned in order #10575S, but Gegner was not one of them. Your gun was/is the last gun listed in the long list, my Sousa Knick was two guns before your 5E. Luckily, the final purchaser of my Sousa was included in the names mentioned in the Boa order. I hope all this is of interest to you.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, apparently the ultimate purchaser of your 5E was Jim Kelley, who I could find no mention of in ATA records. He either liked it and kept it, but didn't shoot registered birds, or he sold it through his sporting goods store. Oddly, there were two Knick Sousa Grade guns in the Boa order, twenty percent of the total production. My Sousa is the last Knick and the highest serial number of identified Knick Sousas. In depression days, these pricey guns were sent back and forth between the factory and dealers, sometimes for years. It was the same way at Parker Brothers.

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, are you sure the inscription is Gegner, Zenia, Illinois and not Zenia, Ohio? Raymond Gegner in Zenia, Ohio is quite an interesting personality. I could find no Gegners in Illinois.

[Stan Hoover]

Bill,
It looks like Xenia, I believe that is Il for Illinois for the state?

I appreciate all your help, I’m curious how you found the order that went to John Boa if you don’t mind me asking?
Stan

[Bill Murphy]

Stan, that is O for Ohio, not IL for Illinois. The Ohio guy is an interesting personality on Google. Look him up. I'll answer your question when you get back to me. Good luck, buddy.

[Stan Hoover]

Bill,
I'm not sure what I'm doing wrong, or how you're doing your search, but I'm not coming up with much on Raymond Gegner?

That's some great information on the order. Must of been one h''ll of an order, 2 Sousa's!

So my 5E was 2 guns behind your Sousa, I'm assuming that is on the order and not necessarily in serial number?

Much Appreciated,
Stan

[Bill Murphy]

Yes, serial numbers were random and Knicks were mixed in with NIDs. PM me with your email address and I'll send you scans of the order and you can post them here if you wish.

[Researcher]

Knicks were mixed in with NIDs.

No, they weren't. Knicks started at 400000 and NIDs started at 425000.

[Bill Murphy]

Dave, I think we knew that. Stan and I were referring to the guns on the order, not their serial numbers. Knicks and NIDs were mixed on the order. I have sent Stan a scan of the order sheet so he can find his gun. Stan, the email went out just a short time ago. Let me know that you got it and please post the scan on this site so everyone can enjoy.

[Stan Hoover]

Bill,
I’m not sure if you’re entering my email address incorrectly, I haven’t received anything yet?
Stan