Let's define a "shooter"...

[Brush Buster]

Tim ; As I read your reply ,I certainly hope its not me you have a bone to pick with , maybe you have been burn't by a seller that wasn't up front and honest about a gun they were selling ,but the part of my reply you forgot to post is where I said , " If I am selling a gun and it is a good solid functional gun ",then this is the way I would advertise the gun !I was just making a point that a gun that has had excessive work ,or after market colors or bluing could still be a nice field gun and a good " Shootin Iron " I think if any one is buying anything ,it is always nice to deal with good reputable honest folks ,but as we all know ,that isn't always the case , when I am selling anything ,I ,will tell the buyer exactly and everything of what I know about the gun in question ,replaced stock ,fore end etc. But in each gun dealing ,it is really up to the individual to make sure what they are purchasing and as you say ,really take the time and do the exploratory surgery !Then make their own mind up as to the condition and if its what they want ,A " shooter " or a Collector piece ! Simply all I was saying ! Russ

And as this thread asks the ?- shooter and to my way of reading this, maybe not restricted to just Parkers. Yesterday at the area gun show- as always, lotsa overpriced junk, tee shirts, older ammo and such- a real sleeper, but just as if Gina L. walked into a Biker bar full of "biker babes" would catch your eye-

AH Fox 16 CE Grade fully optioned- later Phila gun I would guess, Chromox barrels- either no 2 or no 3 weight range- I wish I knew more about the Fox guns- Kautsky single selective trigger, ejectors, straight hand grip with very long trigger guard tail, field style beavertail- flawless wood to metal fit, not refinished about 80% case colors, checkered buttstock with my dims. to a T- 28" barrels and a brass galazan's leaf chamber and choke feeler gauge showed 2.75" chambers and mod. and full on the chokes-about as nice a Fox as I have ever seen- just didn't have the 5K in my pocket- Is this shotgun a shooter? I don't know, but I would not want to be the one to get the first scratch on the stock or let dried pheasant blood collect on the barrels--

We are all 'custodians in the passage of time' on our possessions, whether they be Parkers or Patek Phillipe or Porche- no matter how many we gather and study and treasure, our life span is limited, and we can only hope what TNB called the "come-afters" in our families will also treasure same, and NOT pawn them for drug $--

[tom tutwiler]

Originally Posted by Francis Morin

And as this thread asks the ?- shooter and to my way of reading this, maybe not restricted to just Parkers. Yesterday at the area gun show- as always, lotsa overpriced junk, tee shirts, older ammo and such- a real sleeper, but just as if Gina L. walked into a Biker bar full of "biker babes" would catch your eye-

AH Fox 16 CE Grade fully optioned- later Phila gun I would guess, Chromox barrels- either no 2 or no 3 weight range- I wish I knew more about the Fox guns- Kautsky single selective trigger, ejectors, straight hand grip with very long trigger guard tail, field style beavertail- flawless wood to metal fit, not refinished about 80% case colors, checkered buttstock with my dims. to a T- 28" barrels and a brass galazan's leaf chamber and choke feeler gauge showed 2.75" chambers and mod. and full on the chokes-about as nice a Fox as I have ever seen- just didn't have the 5K in my pocket- Is this shotgun a shooter? I don't know, but I would not want to be the one to get the first scratch on the stock or let dried pheasant blood collect on the barrels--

We are all 'custodians in the passage of time' on our possessions, whether they be Parkers or Patek Phillipe or Porche- no matter how many we gather and study and treasure, our life span is limited, and we can only hope what TNB called the "come-afters" in our families will also treasure same, and NOT pawn them for drug $--

Since I'm mostly a Fox guy, who dabbles in Parkers, I'd say that (if condition was original) was a very good buy at that price. I can't afford it, but it would be high on the list. What would that gun bring if it was a DHE in similar condition in the same gauge. I'll bet a lot more then 5K.

[Dean Romig]

In my opinion an "80% case color remaining" gun is a shooter for sure, if only occasionally.

[Tim Sheldon]

Jack you bring up many good points, especially regarding cut off points. And when a gun is a tool vs. an antique.

But for my mind, to try to keep things simple, lets use Dean Romig's 16ga hammer gun. It is a very early gun in high condition. Say Dean lost his mind and sold that gun to me, I went out and used it and wore 65% of the original finish off of that thing, put a couple of big old dings in the stock, I think that would be selfish. Future generations would not have the fortune to see that gun. Do these guns have to go to museums, I don't think so, but if one of us are so fortunate as to own one or two of these guns, I feel we owe it to future generations to preserve this type of quality in our realm of collecting.
That is just my opinion, I know there are some who say it's a gun and it was made to shoot, and I'm going to shoot her. Well there are plenty of "shooters" out there.
Tim

[TARNATION !!!]

Originally Posted by Tim Sheldon

Say Dean lost his mind and sold that gun to me, ...Tim

I admit I have come to the point where should I have such a gun, it would probably just become eye candy for a while. I don't think Dean would have lost his mind if he sold it to you, but if he "gave" it to you that would be a pretty good indicator. I always liked a bumper sticker I saw years ago "Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most".

Cheers,
Jack

[TARNATION !!!]

Originally Posted by Tim Sheldon

...there are plenty of "shooters" out there.
Tim

True and then I just had a look at John Dunkle's shooter and see that there are pretty fine looking shooters as well, at least to my tri-focal assisted eyeballs staring at a monitor screen.

Nice shooter

[Dean Romig]

Originally Posted by Tim Sheldon

But for my mind, to try to keep things simple, lets use Dean Romig's 16ga hammer gun. It is a very early gun in high condition. Say Dean lost his mind and sold that gun to me, I went out and used it and wore 65% of the original finish off of that thing, put a couple of big old dings in the stock, I think that would be selfish. Future generations would not have the fortune to see that gun. Do these guns have to go to museums, I don't think so, but if one of us are so fortunate as to own one or two of these guns, I feel we owe it to future generations to preserve this type of quality in our realm of collecting.
That is just my opinion, I know there are some who say it's a gun and it was made to shoot, and I'm going to shoot her. Well there are plenty of "shooters" out there.
Tim

I'm okay now... I'm okay... (after continuous resurgent waves of nausea since first reading Tim's post)

I would never presume to tell anyone what to do with his or her guns - even in the case of extremely high condition guns. And in the case, as Tim brought up, of my hammer gun being sold at some point - which certainly will happen - I would not stipulate as a condition of sale or even as a suggestion how that Parker be kept and maintained. If the next custodian of that gun chose to shoot it, full-well knowing it may never have been fired since originally sold, I believe that person will have knowingly and willfully deprived the firearms collectors community of one more pristine factory-fresh relic. And this act, I believe, would certainly be one of selfish disregard. Like Tim said, "there are plenty of shooters out there."