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I feel the Fox is the better gun, but those little Ithacas were sweet. I had a Grade 1 1/2 20 that for some reason I traded for a Rem 1187 Upland 20 for my son. Isure wish I had that gun back. It was just a shooter, but would have made a great project gun. I regret getting rid of it--now my son kind of likes doubles-crap!