Cliff Green Parker's for Sale

[Ray Masciarella]

John, I guess you want to make it personal.

Your post points out many things that are probably unknown to many of us here. Sounds like the PGCA should provide more reimbursement to you. I'm willing to pay twice the dues so that you are not out pocket. It would still be a bargain to me.

I appreciate all you do for the forum members. I never suggested I could do it better than you. If censorship is in the best interest of the PGCA, then it will do so. I did not "diss" you in any way. I did not make it personal or even mention anyones name! I didn't even know there are only two of you.

If I were a moderator, I certainly would not throw myself in a rage and use foul language to respond to something I have not been accused of. After all, a moderator's role is to curb inappropriate, disrespectful comment and language.

Just because you think my "complaint" was unjustified, others do not. I'm not even sure it was a complaint as much as fair, honest comment.

Your job is one of those thankless tasks that many who enjoys this forum takes for granted. We never even think of it. We should. However, that doesn't give you a license to attack me. Heck, you are the moderator for heavens sake! If the moderator is going to attack members, this thing will turn into a free for all.

It sounds like to me the job is too much for you. You feel unappreciated and that is not good, or true. If you are burnt out, and I can see why you would be, maybe it is time to step down. No one would blame you for it and would honor your service.

To the members: I'm sorry for what this thread has been turned into. It was not my intention to cause trouble or attack any individual.

[Ed Blake]

Well, my thread certainly took a detour. The intent of my question was not to make a stir but to stimulate a bit of discussion regarding these fine guns. Kevin recommends TPS for the story on Mr. Green, and it is fascinating. I have wondered what I would have ordered from Parker had I had the chance in another time and place. Mr Greene did just that. I am also a fan of Tony Galazan. His company is the closest thing we have to the legacy American gun companies that made our favorite doubles.

[Mills]

I second Ed on that. If you have to ask the price, you can't afford it. I doubt anybody just surfing the internet is going to be the buyer of that gun, but it is fun to look. I am a Galazan's customer as well, but of stuff like $40 gun cleaning kits.

Julia and I were admiring some of Tony's guns for sale at Brays Island the other weekend. Very nice but we have school for the kids and the 20 gauge Parker Repro I am about to buy to pay for.

[John D.]

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella

John, I guess you want to make it personal.

Your post points out many things that are probably unknown to many of us here. Sounds like the PGCA should provide more reimbursement to you. I'm willing to pay twice the dues so that you are not out pocket. It would still be a bargain to me.

I appreciate all you do for the forum members. I never suggested I could do it better than you. If censorship is in the best interest of the PGCA, then it will do so. I did not "diss" you in any way. I did not make it personal or even mention anyones name! I didn't even know there are only two of you.

If I were a moderator, I certainly would not throw myself in a rage and use foul language to respond to something I have not been accused of. After all, a moderator's role is to curb inappropriate, disrespectful comment and language.

Just because you think my "complaint" was unjustified, others do not. I'm not even sure it was a complaint as much as fair, honest comment.

Your job is one of those thankless tasks that many who enjoys this forum takes for granted. We never even think of it. We should. However, that doesn't give you a license to attack me. Heck, you are the moderator for heavens sake! If the moderator is going to attack members, this thing will turn into a free for all.

It sounds like to me the job is too much for you. You feel unappreciated and that is not good, or true. If you are burnt out, and I can see why you would be, maybe it is time to step down. No one would blame you for it and would honor your service....

Ray - do you read what you write - before you post it? If you do - do you believe what you wrote?

Nope, me neither...

Originally Posted by Ray Masciarella

John,...
To the members: I'm sorry for what this thread has been turned into. It was not my intention to cause trouble or attack any individual.

If you did read what you wrote, before or even after posting it - I'm guessing this comment would be superfluous.

As for "personal attacks" - read you post where you stated this site had "censored you". In fact, you had another user in your accord.? Personal attacks?

That was your post - certainly not mine....

Have a nice evening.

[BRDHNTR]

Everybody is entitled to have a bad day. And everybody has a bad day or two. My wife had her 3rd round of chemo last Thursday and today is feeling absolutely horrible and sufferning more pain than the morphine she takes can cover. And I spent the day trying to clear a toilet that our 2 1/2 yr old grandaughter clogged when she flushed a 'batch' down the hatch the size of a cannon ball! Ye gads! Finally we got it cleared. So everyone has a bad day.

This is an excellent forum. We have terrific member contributers and good moderators to ride herd on us all. Strong honest and open views, opinions and we all have a bad day or two. Let's all go to bed, get some rest and get up tomorrow looking forward to a new set of threads to participate in and Jean and I will pray that our grand daughter doesn't leave us any more 'gifts' like the one she left this weekend!

[Ray Masciarella]

John, you are completely out of order. Actually out of control. I think you are suffering from some type of persecution complex.

First, I meant everything I said. You don't believe it because of your delusion. I especially meant it when I said you should think about stepping down as moderator.

Second, in my first post in this thread I stated that my post in an earlier thread about Galazan's customer service was deleted. This is a indisputable fact. Another member commented that it sounded like censorship and I agreed. Now you probably won't believe a dictionary either, but censorship is defined as suppressing speech that some authority deems objectionable. If deleting my post was not censorship, then what do you call it?

As it turns out, none of this has anything to do with you. You weren't the moderator who deleted my post. You didn't censor anything. But you have thrown yourself in an uncontrollable rant because you are an overworked
volunteer. I'm sorry you work 24/7/365 and PGCA doesn't reimburse you for all of your costs, but you sound ridiculous.

When I read what Allen just posted, I realize how ridiculous it is for me to even engage with you. So you win. Good night.

[Dean Romig]

Mr Masciarella,

It is not my wish to jump into this fray but it needs to be stated that you speak for nobody but yourself and it is the wish of a great many of us here that you take this vendetta off of our public forum and conduct your further discussions on this very personal topic offline either by PM or personal email or telephone call. Mr. Dunkle needs no defense from anyone but until someone has "walked a mile in his shoes" nobody has the right to attack his person.

John - certainly it is your perogative, as you have every right to do what you wish with this website - but I would humbly ask that you lock this thread.

My Best to You, Dean

[Opening Day]

John or Jeff lock it, this is out of control.....Eric

[C.O.B.]

IMHO Ray has conducted himself as a gentalman in addressing his views. He has not cursed anyone or layed blame to any one particular person. we are all intitled to our point of view. I believe he is owed an apology.

[Bill Murphy]

This post is for Allen who wants to know who Cliff Green was. Cliff was an active Maryland waterfowler and NSSA skeet shooter in the thirties and forties. He was not a high average shooter, but he shot on a high average squad and had some good days. It is hard to find individual shoot records for shooters who are not in the winner's circle, but I have a few of Cliff's. In 1947, Cliff went to the Nationals in Syracuse, ran a 231 in All-Bore, a 94 in 20 gauge, an 85 in 28 gauge, and another 85 in the 2 1/2" .410. The same year, he attended the Great Eastern Skeet Championships at Lordship and did some of his best shooting. 97 in 12 gauge, 91 in 20 gauge, and 91 in .410. There were no 28 gauge shells in early 1947, so that event was not shot. He was a member of the great Eastern Shore team of Joe George, Dr. Metcalf, Cliff Green, Julian Coleman, and Ed Calhoun. At 474, they came in three birds ahead of the Dick Shaghnessy squad. My home club squad, the National Capital Rebels, were first at 482. I have shot with three of the five members of the Champion squad and still see one of them a time or two every year. This shoot was 65 years ago.
Nash Buckingham was shooting with a Cliff Green the day he lost Bo Whoop, but I can only assume Cliff Green from Maryland was that person. Cliff and his shooting buddies were serious waterfowlers and guides and I'm sure they knew Nash from the days he was in Washington. Cliff had a few bucks and travelled a bit to hunt and shoot skeet.
I have a letter in my collection from Cliff and his squad written from the 1949 NSSA Nationals in Dallas to one of their squad members who could not attend. The letter was to inform the squad member that one of his cronies had run 100 in one of the events. I can't find the letter to identify the shooters. I hope this is enough information on Cliff Green.