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craig you will like the old 8 ga s just wish the price on them were not so high...but there are some shooters out there but they will set you back more than 10 ga s but still affordable...back to reloading...takes very few tools get a set of these plumbers crimpers and order you some hulls and youall be a 8 ga man for life...one thing i always wanted more than an 8 was a 4 bore.... charlie